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[Suliso]

Nature also intended you to live naked and die at around 40 if you're lucky.

[ponchi101]

Humans are the only species that drink milk from other species. Someone, somewhere along the way, decided that there was a financial profit to be made by doing this, and the industry was born. And then marketing took over, of course.
The fact that humans are the only species to do this tells me that nature intended milk to nourish the young of one's own species.

We are not. You have obviously seen dogs and cats drink milk. Any other mammal species that is offered milk will take it. The only reason they don't do it is because they lack the smarts.
Also, evolution gave us the enzymes to process bovine lactose.
If you are going to claim that financial profit drives that industry, it drives ALL agricultural industries. No farmer plants an excess crop for fun.

[MJ2004]

I read more about this topic than probably anyone here when I became dairy intolerant. Should humans be drinking milk? Should they not? There is tons of speculation and pseudo-science around this topic, but no real scientific evidence that consuming dairy, in moderation, is problematic. I read a lot of "evidence" about the evils of consuming dairy, but it didn't convince me. My conclusion is that it's fine as long as your body can tolerate it and you don't overdo it. I'm just glad my intolerance has receded and I can be part of the dairy-consuming human race again.

[Deuce]

Humans are the only species that drink milk from other species. Someone, somewhere along the way, decided that there was a financial profit to be made by doing this, and the industry was born. And then marketing took over, of course.
The fact that humans are the only species to do this tells me that nature intended milk to nourish the young of one's own species.

We are not. You have obviously seen dogs and cats drink milk. Any other mammal species that is offered milk will take it. The only reason they don't do it is because they lack the smarts.
Also, evolution gave us the enzymes to process bovine lactose.
If you are going to claim that financial profit drives that industry, it drives ALL agricultural industries. No farmer plants an excess crop for fun.

Dogs and cats drink milk from other species only because we give it to them. They don't do it naturally at all.
And neither do humans. Humans drink milk from other species only because the marketing tells them to, not because it comes naturally to us.

Of course all farmers do it for profit. My point was simply that someone, somewhere along the way, had this crazy idea that he could make money by convincing humans to do something that was not done across any species on the planet. Who knows where the crazy idea came from...

As for being naked... it's human nature to seek/create bodily protection from the elements - it's part of the survival instinct. This is quite different from choosing to consume the physically nurturing sustenance of another species.

And if any of you are of the comfortable belief that your milk comes from the cow that is comfortably relaxing in the pasture day in, day out, until the old farmer gets his stool and bucket and begins squeezing those udders with his hands - you are grossly mistaken. Unless you know the old farmer personally, there's a 99.9% chance that your milk comes from factory farms.
Factory farms have no resemblance to the farms of the past. Farming is very much industrialized today. Mechanical machines are milking the cows, who are usually confined to areas only about twice the size of their bodies - not only when they are being milked, but pretty much all the time.
Factory farming has absolutely nothing to do with nature - the only thing that factory farming is interested in is to produce as much financial profit as is possible, no matter the consequences (pollution, animal abuse, etc.).

Cow's milk is very much a product of human intervention as much as it is a product of the cow...
'Why Milk Isn't as 'Natural' as You Think'...

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[MJ2004]

Humans drink milk from other species only because the marketing tells them to, not because it comes naturally to us.

Or... maybe because it tastes great and we've benefited as a species from the greater nutritional benefits it brings us?

Tangentially related, I'll just add this here:

[Deuce]

Humans drink milk from other species only because the marketing tells them to, not because it comes naturally to us.

Or... maybe because it tastes great and we've benefited as a species from the greater nutritional benefits it brings us?

Or... maybe the 'nutritional benefits' claim is part of the marketing BS...

People might also wish to know that it takes 1000 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of milk.

For anyone interested in the effects and consequences of animal industrial and factory farming today, the often systematically stifled information contained in this film is interesting...
Here is a brief 5 minute synopsis of the film - the complete film is available on Netflix and Amazon Prime...



“The purpose of cow’s milk is to turn a 65 pound calf into a 400 pound animal as rapidly as possible. Cow’s milk is baby calf growth fluid. It is the lactatious secretions of a large bovine mammal who just gave birth.”

[Suliso]

Making and using dairy products has been part of our culture for 5,000+ years. Longer than money has been in existence let alone industrial farming.

[Deuce]

Lots of things that were done 5000 years ago were not healthy - and some of those things are still occurring today. Regardless of when humans began drinking animal milk, it was not a common thing to do until relatively recently - and we are still the only species which drinks the milk of other species.
And, yes, somewhere along the way, someone figured that they could make money from convincing people to partake in this odd and unnatural practice - and that’s the likely reason for its current presence.

But we’re living today. And today, cows (and other animals) are artificially altered and manipulated to produce as much milk (profits) as possible. And so your milk comes from animals which are artificially altered and modified (usually chemically) to produce unnaturally high quantities of milk - just like in the rest of the animal farming industry, with artificial growth hormones, overfeeding, etc. The animal farming industry today is also rife with incredible cruelty and abuse - which the majority of people very voluntarily (and sadly) close their eyes to, because it’s quite uncomfortable to contemplate their complicity. Human beings despise discomfort, and no matter how real the source of their discomfort is, they will avoid thinking about it at all costs - especially when they are complicit.

The animal products consumed in the developed world today have no relation to the hunter-gatherers, etc. of yesteryear.
With industrial and factory farming, and the overpopulation of humans, the negative consequences of dairy are much, much greater today.

[Suliso]

You're free to adopt vegan lifestyle. Us trying to convince each other further would be pointless.

[ponchi101]

Yet, here we are, living longer lives than ever, having to deal with obesity as opposed to starvation, having to deal with too many people as opposed to vanishing populations. The evils of modern agriculture.
A surprising stat: the tallest people in the world? Bosnians, Netherlands and Montenegro. The largest milk consumers in the world? Finland, Montenegro and the Netherlands. Perhaps there is a relation there.

[Suliso]

Something else - our ancestors became smarter to a large extent by consuming more meat. Modern agriculture needs to be industrial to some extent. No way to feed 7 billion people otherwise. No doubt it could be taken in a very unhealthy direction (see all the junk food) if not properly regulated. Remember virtually everything (99%+) you touch or see or eat today is a product of modern industry directly or indirectly.

[JazzNU]

[ti-amie]

Just think - US rail service may enter the 20th century

[ti-amie]

[Suliso]

Just think - US rail service may enter the 20th century

That will be difficult... If someone were to ask my advice I'd propose to concentrate majority of the rail portion money to enhancing rail based public transport in the nations largest cities. Long distance intercity rail is cool, but only makes a lot of sense if there is good public transport in the destination.