Covid-19 Updates & Info

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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1231

Post by ponchi101 »

But the numbers match. If Tiny won with 83% of the vote, that leaves 17% that did not vote for him. Take the 2% that always think it is smart to vote for a looney candidate, it leaves you the 15% that are vaccinated.
Oversimplified, of course, but the numbers are too close to not, at least, give it some attention.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1232

Post by ti-amie »

Fifteen per cent.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1233

Post by Deuce »

ti-amie wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:29 pm
JazzNU wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:36 pm That's a very simplistic view of things and only a claim she can make 2 months after the fact, so it clearly can't be just that. And also, though I like Lena, she's one of the ones who has been waiting to say "I told you so" since they changed the guidelines and I guess this is close enough.

The lifting of the mask guidelines for vaccinated people by the states, not the CDC since they have no power to do that, was also an incentive to get the vaccine. Because for a good stretch there, there was a "why should I get vaccinated if I still have to wear a mask?" question circulating loudly by many and it was disincentivizing getting the vaccine. The honor system rarely works and certainly doesn't in this context, but this is too simplistic and painting things too broadly especially because the change in guidelines also incentivized getting the vaccine.
Whether it's simplistic or not, it is an extremely accurate account of what occurred. And it was 100% predictable for anyone with an even partially functioning brain - so the level of intelligence of the people at the CDC must absolutely be questioned... Well, actually, there is no question - it should just be strongly criticized.

I don't know if the CDC actually ordered the removal of the mask mandate, but it did definitely issue a statement which said that vaccinated people need not wear masks in indoor public places - idiotically counting on everyone to be honest about it. This level of complete stupidity was obviously very dangerous - and very predictably so - and it should not go unpunished.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1234

Post by Suliso »

At some stage restrictions will need to be removed anyway so why not now? Conventional wisdom says you keep them until you reach maximum vaccination level, but in USA maximum is reached already. Those Trumpers will not vaccinate themselves no matter what. Thus it would be logical to now relax and let them get immunity via disease. I see no other long term solution. Do you?
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1235

Post by Deuce »

Suliso wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:11 am At some stage restrictions will need to be removed anyway so why not now? Conventional wisdom says you keep them until you reach maximum vaccination level, but in USA maximum is reached already. Those Trumpers will not vaccinate themselves no matter what. Thus it would be logical to now relax and let them get immunity via disease. I see no other long term solution. Do you?
With the high number of unvaccinated people, plus the current variants, and the unknown number and severity and resistance to vaccines of variants still to come, it is far too early to even think of long term solutions now.
The problem with the human animal is that it thoroughly lacks patience (and common sense). People want a universal cure yesterday (so that they can get back to doing tremendously important things like going to movie theatres and getting their hair done) - and so, as no such universal cure exists yet (because we are still very early in the overall timetable of a pandemic) - because there is no universal cure, people are simply pretending there is one.

Doing what the U.S. has done - which is, essentially, to pretend that the pandemic is over - is completely asinine, and shows the impulsivity and impatience of a 2 year old child.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1236

Post by Suliso »

So what's your long term solution? Let's set long term at 5 years.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1237

Post by Deuce »

I just said that it's far too early to find a long term solution.
There are still too many variables and unknowns.

And as I also just said, people are far too impatient. People have been conditioned to expect instant results and instant solutions to everything. But that's a fool's path.
And people are too egotistical, as well. People cannot admit that they don't know something. So they pretend. And that's dangerous.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1238

Post by Suliso »

I strongly disagree. 1 1/2 years into the pandemic is by no means too early to think how we're going to deal with this in a medium and long term.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1239

Post by Suliso »

I was just thinking what kind of big stick could US federal government wield to force Trumpers to vaccinate. It's a bit limited due to federal nature, but there are still some things. The most effective might be no flying (no exceptions) if you're not doubly vaccinated by September 1st. Dishonorable discharge from army/navy at the same date. The squeeze states by not giving aid to those who don't get their vaccination rate up to 80% adults.

Of course there will be riots, but let them riot...
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1240

Post by ponchi101 »

All of those "unimportant" things that people do FEED other people.
We had that conversation before. In countries with good social security, people can stay without a job longer because they have the support of the government. In the USA, the government can go and issue $3 Trillion in debt and deliver stimulus checks to the vast majority of the population and the economy goes on. Try to do that in South America and see how your economy burns overnight.
Glenn left this forum (actually TAT1.0) because when Drop and I explained that people in Colombia and Argentina simply could not remain locked in, not because they needed to be entertained but because they needed work, he found our opinions irresponsible. But the reality is that, worldwide, the service sector of the economy is far larger than the production sector, and that means people interacting with people. I have already stated that my mental health problem here in Colombia is walking to the frigging supermarket and running into 10-12 groups of people begging for alms. Or running into the professional musicians that take over a corner and stand there, singing and playing their music because the restaurant where they used to work went bankrupt. You go tell them that the restaurant and entertainment sector should remain closed until not one single person has Covid, which will be in 5 years, if we re lucky.

The role of governments is to make plans. Short, mid and long term. We, a small community, have zero power on what happens, but plans need to be made. What will happen if the percentage of purposely-non-vaccinated people remains at 40% is something every government should look into, because a reservoir of 40% means that the virus stays here for good, and will mutate accordingly. So ideas like what Suliso says need to be considered at government level:
After such a date, you don't get to fly, and I would extend that to using trains.
Companies have the right to terminate you if you refuse vaccination.
Children have to be vaccinated to attend school.
You purposely did not get vaccinated and your landed in an ICU? Your insurance is not responsible.

The pandemic is not over, that is clear. But life is not over either and a global plan to vaccinate and see if we can stop the virus is needed. Here in Colombia, everything is opening again but now we have the other side of the vicious circle: businesses are empty because, after 18 months of shutdown, the number of people WITH NO JOBS is so high we can't go and patronize a restaurant, or a theater, or a bar. I hate to use myself as an example but I had to stop playing tennis because I see no future employment, in the short or medium term. That means my tennis pro is not seeing my $30/session, twice a week. My car is under cover because my insurance lapsed, and I can use public transport fine, but that means the small place where I buy my insurance missed one payment. It cascades, on and on.

Us, the responsible ones, need to see what will the governments will do with the lunatics that feel that vaccination and wearing masks is useless. Because that percentage can bring everybody down, when they remain the incubation pool for variant Epsilon, Gamma and the others.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1241

Post by ti-amie »

Los Angeles is shutting down again. The unvaxxed will mix with the vaxxed while Delta variant rages uncontrolled. This doesn't bode well.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1242

Post by JazzNU »

ti-amie wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:12 pm Los Angeles is shutting down again. The unvaxxed will mix with the vaxxed while Delta variant rages uncontrolled. This doesn't bode well.
Where are you reading that LA is shutting down? They re-instituted the mask mandate in the county, but I haven't seen anything about a shutdown.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1243

Post by ti-amie »

JazzNU wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:52 pm
ti-amie wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:12 pm Los Angeles is shutting down again. The unvaxxed will mix with the vaxxed while Delta variant rages uncontrolled. This doesn't bode well.
Where are you reading that LA is shutting down? They re-instituted the mask mandate in the county, but I haven't seen anything about a shutdown.
I rechecked and you are right. It's just the mask mandate for now.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1244

Post by dryrunguy »

First, ponchi, I want to thank you for your thoughts, particularly as it relates to the harsh realities facing those in the majority world. Their options are severely restricted. Widespread access to a high-quality vaccine is probably the only thing that can save them--at least until the next pandemic hits.

::

Second, as for the U.S., I guess I have come to accept day-to-day life as something fairly similar to defensive driving. I can be a safe and conscientious driver, but I have no control over the person driving drunk, the person texting while driving, the dumb kid flexing his testosterone at 90 mph, or the elderly person whose eyes aren't so great anymore. When you drive, you have to look for any sign of trouble around you.

We CAN open up here in the United States, but each of us has to live defensively.

What burns me, though, is that these dingbats who scream "liberty" and "freedom" (two words that have completely lost their meaning since they've been completely adulterated) are the very same people who want to govern reproduction and whether LGBTQ folks should be allowed to marry or adopt children, etc. These idiots have completely ruined EVERYTHING. And they render any kind of legitimate, long-term plan nothing more than wasted ink.
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Re: Covid-19 Updates & Info

#1245

Post by ti-amie »



“Do not grow old, no matter how long you live. Never cease to stand like curious children before the Great Mystery into which we were born.” Albert Einstein
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