C19 and Tennis

[oliver0001]

So I couldn't sleep during the night over here in Europe and read the 260 or so pages (although there were a number of documents that were redundant). After reading both sides' arguments, I think it's not entirely unlikely that Djokovic might win, because
a) the Minister has acknowledged that there is a minimal health thread from Djokovic of directly transmitting the virus because after an infection you will be immune for a number of months from contracting it again
b) therefore indirectly retracting from the argument that a 14-day quarantine for non-vaccinated recently recovered people is necessary to enter Australia
c) both sides' arguments seem equally far-fetched to me: that Djokovic staying in Australia could lead to a strengthening of the anti-vaxx movement, people ignoring Corona rules and an overall hesitency for getting vaccinated (Minister's line of argument) or that the opposite would be true: deporting Djokovic would strengthen the anti-vaxx movement (Djokovic's lawyers' line of argument).

Two things from the documents I think are hilarious: if Djokovic is deported that would jeopardize the AO being played in Australia in the future (see earlier post) and Djokovic's lawyers citing as evidence an online-poll by The Age in which some 60% of people said they were in favor of Djokovic playing the AO (although clearly it might have been only Serbians participating in the poll).

[Deuce]

Given the inconsistencies with the various documentations and accounts of Djokovic's claimed positive COVID-19 test in December, and those inconsistencies coming from Djokovic's side, I believe it's reasonable to question whether the test and/or result of the test was legitimate or fake or manipulated.
As well, given the very convenient timing of his supposed positive test result, I also believe it's reasonable to question if he contracted COVID-19 deliberately (if he actually did contract it, which, of course, is itself questionable).

It is also reasonable to question his level of personal discipline and his level of consideration for others due to his behaviours and travels in the days following his supposed positive COVID-19 test.

Therefore, based on all of this, I believe it's more than reasonable to conclude that Novak Djokovic is akin to neither Jesus Christ nor Spartacus, as his parents claim, but is instead an undesirable, and, as such, should be escorted out of Australia forthwith.

For right now, I'm happy to see him back in his favourite detention hotel with his favourite food.

.

[mick1303]

The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.

This is just not true on so many levels... I'm vaccinated and got infected by covid very easy. Got it from my wife, who is also vaccinated. Being vaccinated or not vaccinated does absolutely nothing regarding one's ability TO TRANSFER the virus. It may (or may not) ease the symptoms once you're infected, but this is totally unrelated to the issue. Now regarding the mask - the size of the virus is so tiny that these masks do next to nothing. And in the open air where the distance between people is big it is absolutely unnecessary. Unless your goal is to scare people into obeying EVERYTHING. Mask is just a sign to those who do the bullying that this is the obedient person.

[oliver0001]

The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.

This is just not true on so many levels... I'm vaccinated and got infected by covid very easy. Got it from my wife, who is also vaccinated. Being vaccinated or not vaccinated does absolutely nothing regarding one's ability TO TRANSFER the virus. It may (or may not) ease the symptoms once you're infected, but this is totally unrelated to the issue. Now regarding the mask - the size of the virus is so tiny that these masks do next to nothing. And in the open air where the distance between people is big it is absolutely unnecessary. Unless your goal is to scare people into obeying EVERYTHING. Mask is just a sign to those who do the bullying that this is the obedient person.

Masks do help to not spread the virus. There are so many scientific studies on this, so I just cite one: https://www.mpg.de/17916867/coronavirus ... protection

While vaccinations used to help not to get infected with earlier variants, Omikron has changed this. However, unvaccinated people are likely to be infectious for longer and may have a higher degree of infectiousness. For Delta, see https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 22269010v1: In vaccinated vs. unvaccinated Delta infected individuals, RNA genome copies were comparable but vaccinated individuals have significantly lower IVTs, and cleared virus faster.

[ponchi101]

I thought that part of the idea behind the masks is that in that way, the "plume" of your breathing is not as extended as without it. Your possible-virulent breaths remain closer to you.
The other thing is also psychological. If I see a person with a mask here in Bogota (and everybody is wearing them), my chances that such a person has been vaccinated are greater than if the person if without one. It allows me to decide whether I want to approach or not such a person. The people against all these controls fail to see that that is a basic tenet of civility: you do not want to wear a mask? Ok, let's grant you that (which we shouldn't, but that is another discussion). But then we get also the freedom of not interacting with you.

[oliver0001]

I thought that part of the idea behind the masks is that in that way, the "plume" of your breathing is not as extended as without it. Your possible-virulent breaths remain closer to you.
The other thing is also psychological. If I see a person with a mask here in Bogota (and everybody is wearing them), my chances that such a person has been vaccinated are greater than if the person if without one. It allows me to decide whether I want to approach or not such a person. The people against all these controls fail to see that that is a basic tenet of civility: you do not want to wear a mask? Ok, let's grant you that (which we shouldn't, but that is another discussion). But then we get also the freedom of not interacting with you.

But what happens if you are stuck in a small, confined place like a ski cable car (closed on all sides) and people refuse to wear a mask (as has happened to me recently in Switzerland with an infection rate in that town of 7,500 new infections within the last seven days per 100,000 people)? Scary even if you wear your won mask. So ultimately, I think it should not be your own choice to wear a mask or not.

[ponchi101]

...

But what happens if you are stuck in a small, confined place like a ski cable car (closed on all sides) and people refuse to wear a mask (as has happened to me recently in Switzerland with an infection rate in that town of 7,500 new infections within the last seven days per 100,000 people)? Scary even if you wear your won mask. So ultimately, I think it should not be your own choice to wear a mask or not.

Mick was talking about wearing masks outdoors, so I was limiting myself to that scenario. When indoors, you will not find me in disagreement with your position.
I will be traveling to the USA on Wednesday, having to catch three planes in total. I am sure that some jerk in the cabin will not be wearing his mask. So my chances of C19/Omicron by next Saturday will certainly not be zero.

[oliver0001]

...

But what happens if you are stuck in a small, confined place like a ski cable car (closed on all sides) and people refuse to wear a mask (as has happened to me recently in Switzerland with an infection rate in that town of 7,500 new infections within the last seven days per 100,000 people)? Scary even if you wear your won mask. So ultimately, I think it should not be your own choice to wear a mask or not.

Mick was talking about wearing masks outdoors, so I was limiting myself to that scenario. When indoors, you will not find me in disagreement with your position.
I will be traveling to the USA on Wednesday, having to catch three planes in total. I am sure that some jerk in the cabin will not be wearing his mask. So my chances of C19/Omicron by next Saturday will certainly not be zero.

I mostly agree with outdoors. But when there is a crowd outdoors, there is still a chance to catch it, unfortunately.

Good luck during your trip! (I've decided to not limit myself anymore travelling. Life without travelling is just so much less enjoyable...)

[dmforever]

IF i can jump in this discussion...As Oliver said, masks help reduce the chance of getting infected. But they are not foolproof. But they do help. And from what I've read and heard, the type of mask, especially with Omicron, is very important. Wear an N95 or KN95. They rest much more flush to your face than a cloth mask.

Kevin

[ponchi101]

BTW.
Anybody knows what happens in THIS scenario: Novak is under detention right now. What if Monday comes, he is scheduled for hearings, and he can't play his match? Do we go like into 1 hour before the match Tennis Australia announces his default and grants the spot to LL?
Anybody knows what happens if he is under detention? Right now, he certainly can't train.

[meganfernandez]

The virus is air borne though so an unvaxxed, maskless person is a threat to everyone.

This is just not true on so many levels... I'm vaccinated and got infected by covid very easy. Got it from my wife, who is also vaccinated. Being vaccinated or not vaccinated does absolutely nothing regarding one's ability TO TRANSFER the virus. It may (or may not) ease the symptoms once you're infected, but this is totally unrelated to the issue. Now regarding the mask - the size of the virus is so tiny that these masks do next to nothing. And in the open air where the distance between people is big it is absolutely unnecessary. Unless your goal is to scare people into obeying EVERYTHING. Mask is just a sign to those who do the bullying that this is the obedient person.

Being vaccinated does protect against contracting the virus, not just mitigating symptoms. It provides about 70% more protection against infection than the unvaccinated with the same exposure.

Not sure about the power of spreading it further once it’s contracted. But if the viral load is less - which would seem to go along with less-severe reactions - then probably less likely to spread it. Just a guess.

[dmforever]

BTW.
Anybody knows what happens in THIS scenario: Novak is under detention right now. What if Monday comes, he is scheduled for hearings, and he can't play his match? Do we go like into 1 hour before the match Tennis Australia announces his default and grants the spot to LL?
Anybody knows what happens if he is under detention? Right now, he certainly can't train.

Ponchi, are you saying he is in detention right now, or are you asking what would happen if he is? I didn't read that anywhere.

Kevin

[Owendonovan]

I believe his hearing is at 9:30 am Sunday.

[meganfernandez]

I believe his hearing is at 9:30 am Sunday.

Which is Sat 5:30 pm ET in the States, I believe. So very soon.


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[shmrck14]

Here is the link for the hearing