Tennis Related - Off Court Serious Issues

[Deuce]

I agree the rules are too strict and should be changed. The men should be allowed to change their shorts without using the toilet. Have you seen some of them sweat?

^ Sweating isn't the only problem that would require a change of shorts...

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Now that is a serious problem. That is almost borderline retiring from the match seriousness right there.

If a player wearing those shorts asks to go off court to change them, and doesn't urinate or defecate while off court, the chair umpire, in giving him a code violation warning, would say "You should have waited a little longer to defecate. By doing it in your shorts, you painted yourself into a corner - you had to go and change your shorts, but you had nothing remaining to deposit into the toilet!"

[ponchi101]

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The players in the match were Kalinskaya and Potapova who are both Russian. One of them had to have had a problem with it. I could have easily understood, if the fan was making comments that she should have been removed, but she was just sitting there watching the match. The two players are there for one reason and that is to play a tennis match and not worry about what is going on and the sights in the stands.

Did I misread something? The report was that this woman was watching a match and simply being wrapped in an Ukrainian flag. Was she vociferously saying something to the Russian players?

[meganfernandez]

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The players in the match were Kalinskaya and Potapova who are both Russian. One of them had to have had a problem with it. I could have easily understood, if the fan was making comments that she should have been removed, but she was just sitting there watching the match. The two players are there for one reason and that is to play a tennis match and not worry about what is going on and the sights in the stands.

Did I misread something? The report was that this woman was watching a match and simply being wrapped in an Ukrainian flag. Was she vociferously saying something to the Russian players?

I'll play devil's advocate. Usually when fans display flags, it's the flag of a player on the court. This match featured two Russians. This was a protest during a match, even if it was silent and peaceful - at least, that's a reasonable interpretation. I agree with her stance and I think the umpire overreached, but it's not like someone flying the Serbian flag when Djokovic is playing. Apples and oranges.

I think they should have left the lady alone, but I can see how the Russian players found it hard to ignore. What makes it different than someone cheering for your opponent is that this had nothing to do with the tennis match itself, and who knows what kind of hostilities some Russian players have been subjected to.

It's possible to have full sympathy and support for Ukraine/Ukranians and also sympathy for innocent Russians (particularly players) who are targets of outrage.

[AcesAnnie]

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The players in the match were Kalinskaya and Potapova who are both Russian. One of them had to have had a problem with it. I could have easily understood, if the fan was making comments that she should have been removed, but she was just sitting there watching the match. The two players are there for one reason and that is to play a tennis match and not worry about what is going on and the sights in the stands.

Did I misread something? The report was that this woman was watching a match and simply being wrapped in an Ukrainian flag. Was she vociferously saying something to the Russian players?

You did not miss a thing. The woman in question was only draped in the Ukrainian flag. She did not utter a word during the match. She was just sitting there watching the match. This behavior seemingly disturbed one of the Russian players. The chair umpire then asked her to remove the flag or she would have to leave.All the fans sitting around her came to her support, but instead she left to not make a huge issue of it. Later, while walking the grounds a security member approached her and told her that she was violating the rules that the flag was not regulation size. The security member escorted her to the parking lot to put the flag back into her car and she was able to return to the event. I am not sure if she did return or just left.

This must be some rule for just Cincinnati, because I have seen large flags in all the events. I also believe if this would have been any other flag then the Ukrainian Flag or possibly a Russian Flag, this would not have been an issue at all.

In terms of what meganfernadez just stated, I do agree that the woman was making a protest. The Russian players should not however have been affected by the flag in the stands. Now if the woman was saying things to the players that is different. I have been to many professional sporting events where fans have signs about players that have not been very nice and some events they even chant nasty things to the players while they are on the playing field. The professional players in every instance have just blocked out all of it and played the game. That is what these two tennis players should have done that day, played tennis.

[ponchi101]

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I'll play devil's advocate. Usually when people display flags, it's the flag of a player on the court. This match featured two Russians. This was a protest during a match, even if it was silent and peaceful - at least, that's a reasonable interpretation. I agree with her stance and I think the umpire overreached, but it's not like someone flying the Serbian flag when Djokovic is playing. Apples and oranges.

I think they should have left the lady alone, but I can see how the Russian players found it hard to ignore. What makes it different than someone cheering for your opponent is that this had nothing to do with the tennis match itself, and who knows what kind of hostilities some Russian players have been subjected to.

It's possible to have full sympathy and support for Ukraine/Ukranians and also sympathy for innocent Russians (particularly players) who targets of the outrage.

In today's world, with SM and a trillion smartphones around the world, if any Russian player had been subjected to hostilities we would know of them. I really doubt it would not come out.

[AcesAnnie]

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I'll play devil's advocate. Usually when people display flags, it's the flag of a player on the court. This match featured two Russians. This was a protest during a match, even if it was silent and peaceful - at least, that's a reasonable interpretation. I agree with her stance and I think the umpire overreached, but it's not like someone flying the Serbian flag when Djokovic is playing. Apples and oranges.

I think they should have left the lady alone, but I can see how the Russian players found it hard to ignore. What makes it different than someone cheering for your opponent is that this had nothing to do with the tennis match itself, and who knows what kind of hostilities some Russian players have been subjected to.

It's possible to have full sympathy and support for Ukraine/Ukranians and also sympathy for innocent Russians (particularly players) who targets of the outrage.

In today's world, with SM and a trillion smartphones around the world, if any Russian player had been subjected to hostilities we would know of them. I really doubt it would not come out.

Most likely both Kalinskaya & Potapova are not in support of the Russian invasion, but still they cannot be outspoken about it much at all.

The thing is these two ladies were on that court for one sole purpose and that was to play a tennis match. They were not there to look around in the stands and worry about a lady sitting quietly in the stands draped in a Ukrainian flag. I have been to many professional sporting events where I have seen signs made by fans that ridicule the opposing players, and even have heard loud nasty chants towards players and the professional players have all blocked it out and played the game. That is what these two tennis players should have done, they should have just done what they were set out to do and play the tennis match.

[FredX]

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This must be some rule for just Cincinnati, because I have seen large flags in all the events. I also believe if this would have been any other flag then the Ukrainian Flag or possibly a Russian Flag, this would not have been an issue at all.

[/quote]

This rule is definitely on the books at the U.S. Open, and I assume it's universal at least at USTA events, though I imagine enforcement varies wildly.

[AcesAnnie]

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This must be some rule for just Cincinnati, because I have seen large flags in all the events. I also believe if this would have been any other flag then the Ukrainian Flag or possibly a Russian Flag, this would not have been an issue at all.

This rule is definitely on the books at the U.S. Open, and I assume it's universal at least at USTA events, though I imagine enforcement varies wildly.
[/quote]

It must vary extremely widely, because I see these sorts of flags all the time at all the events.

[meganfernandez]

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This must be some rule for just Cincinnati, because I have seen large flags in all the events. I also believe if this would have been any other flag then the Ukrainian Flag or possibly a Russian Flag, this would not have been an issue at all.

This rule is definitely on the books at the U.S. Open, and I assume it's universal at least at USTA events, though I imagine enforcement varies wildly.

It must vary extremely widely, because I see these sorts of flags all the time at all the events.
[/quote]

Of course the flag of a player on the court wouldn't have been an issue. The issue here was that it wasn't supporting either player. I don't think it's fair to say "what the Russian players should have done" or "should have felt." We aren't in their shoes. We don't know what they're going through as individuals or players. They were just banned from that biggest tournament in the world. You don't think someone (esp someone young, not a lot of life experience) might feel a little persecuted by tennis? I could see that. For me, only individuals determine what should and should not bother them in this very personal situation that I, for one, cannot fathom.

Disagree we would have heard about every little aggression, macro or micro, that has happened to a player. Very likely people would want to downplay it. It's embarrassing, and they're not exactly sympathetic figures.

People tend to judge when they should be inferring. Here, I infer that it was upsetting to the Russian players and that's very likely a reasonable reaction since they have been going though something I cannot possibly understand.

Was it the right call? Probably not. But were the players oversensitive babies and agents of oppression? Not in my book.

[AcesAnnie]

This must be some rule for just Cincinnati, because I have seen large flags in all the events. I also believe if this would have been any other flag then the Ukrainian Flag or possibly a Russian Flag, this would not have been an issue at all.

This rule is definitely on the books at the U.S. Open, and I assume it's universal at least at USTA events, though I imagine enforcement varies wildly.

It must vary extremely widely, because I see these sorts of flags all the time at all the events.

Of course the flag of a player on the court wouldn't have been an issue. The issue here was that it wasn't supporting either player. I don't think it's fair to say "what the Russian players should have done" or "should have felt." We aren't in their shoes. We don't know what they're going through as individuals or players. They were just banned from that biggest tournament in the world. You don't think someone (esp someone young, not a lot of life experience) might feel a little persecuted by tennis? I could see that. For me, only individuals determine what should and should not bother them in this very personal situation that I, for one, cannot fathom.

Disagree we would have heard about every little aggression, macro or micro, that has happened to a player. Very likely people would want to downplay it. It's embarrassing, and they're not exactly sympathetic figures.

People tend to judge when they should be inferring. Here, I infer that it was upsetting to the Russian players and that's very likely a reasonable reaction since they have been going though something I cannot possibly understand.

Was it the right call? Probably not. But were the players oversensitive babies and agents of oppression? Not in my book.
[/quote]
Yes, you are correct that it is not my place to assume what the Russian players should have done or felt. That was wrong of me to assume that. I have however seen fans do a lot more in aggravating professional players, with the pros not reacting in any way at all. I do however understand the current circumstances these Russian players are going through, and especially the pressures from their government. That has to be extremely hard on them.

I think the entire situation was blown out of proportion, and the fan did the right thing by leaving. What I really did not like is outside of the stadium or court this fan was at, the fan was once again approached by security and then escorted to her car to dispose of the flag in her car. I don't see how that was offending anyone on the grounds, and certainly no Russian players.

[meganfernandez]

This rule is definitely on the books at the U.S. Open, and I assume it's universal at least at USTA events, though I imagine enforcement varies wildly.

It must vary extremely widely, because I see these sorts of flags all the time at all the events.

Of course the flag of a player on the court wouldn't have been an issue. The issue here was that it wasn't supporting either player. I don't think it's fair to say "what the Russian players should have done" or "should have felt." We aren't in their shoes. We don't know what they're going through as individuals or players. They were just banned from that biggest tournament in the world. You don't think someone (esp someone young, not a lot of life experience) might feel a little persecuted by tennis? I could see that. For me, only individuals determine what should and should not bother them in this very personal situation that I, for one, cannot fathom.

Disagree we would have heard about every little aggression, macro or micro, that has happened to a player. Very likely people would want to downplay it. It's embarrassing, and they're not exactly sympathetic figures.

People tend to judge when they should be inferring. Here, I infer that it was upsetting to the Russian players and that's very likely a reasonable reaction since they have been going though something I cannot possibly understand.

Was it the right call? Probably not. But were the players oversensitive babies and agents of oppression? Not in my book.

Yes, you are correct that it is not my place to assume what the Russian players should have done or felt. That was wrong of me to assume that. I have however seen fans do a lot more in aggravating professional players, with the pros not reacting in any way at all. I do however understand the current circumstances these Russian players are going through, and especially the pressures from their government. That has to be extremely hard on them.

I think the entire situation was blown out of proportion, and the fan did the right thing by leaving. What I really did not like is outside of the stadium or court this fan was at, the fan was once again approached by security and then escorted to her car to dispose of the flag in her car. I don't see how that was offending anyone on the grounds, and certainly no Russian players.
[/quote]

Totally agree that they shouldn't have made her take the flag to her car. What if she wanted to display it at a Ukranian's match? What was the tournament so afraid of? She definitely wasn't being outrageously disruptive. That was disappointing.

[AcesAnnie]

It must vary extremely widely, because I see these sorts of flags all the time at all the events.

Of course the flag of a player on the court wouldn't have been an issue. The issue here was that it wasn't supporting either player. I don't think it's fair to say "what the Russian players should have done" or "should have felt." We aren't in their shoes. We don't know what they're going through as individuals or players. They were just banned from that biggest tournament in the world. You don't think someone (esp someone young, not a lot of life experience) might feel a little persecuted by tennis? I could see that. For me, only individuals determine what should and should not bother them in this very personal situation that I, for one, cannot fathom.

Disagree we would have heard about every little aggression, macro or micro, that has happened to a player. Very likely people would want to downplay it. It's embarrassing, and they're not exactly sympathetic figures.

People tend to judge when they should be inferring. Here, I infer that it was upsetting to the Russian players and that's very likely a reasonable reaction since they have been going though something I cannot possibly understand.

Was it the right call? Probably not. But were the players oversensitive babies and agents of oppression? Not in my book.

Yes, you are correct that it is not my place to assume what the Russian players should have done or felt. That was wrong of me to assume that. I have however seen fans do a lot more in aggravating professional players, with the pros not reacting in any way at all. I do however understand the current circumstances these Russian players are going through, and especially the pressures from their government. That has to be extremely hard on them.

I think the entire situation was blown out of proportion, and the fan did the right thing by leaving. What I really did not like is outside of the stadium or court this fan was at, the fan was once again approached by security and then escorted to her car to dispose of the flag in her car. I don't see how that was offending anyone on the grounds, and certainly no Russian players.

Totally agree that they shouldn't have made her take the flag to her car. What if she wanted to display it at a Ukranian's match? What was the tournament so afraid of? She definitely wasn't being outrageously disruptive. That was disappointing.
[/quote]
I wonder how many large flags from Spain when Rafa plays tomorrow or even tonight, how many United States "Old Glory" Flags when Serena plays will be asked to be taken back to their cars?

[ponchi101]

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I wonder how many large flags from Spain when Rafa plays tomorrow or even tonight, how many United States "Old Glory" Flags when Serena plays will be asked to be taken back to their cars?

Yes.

[meganfernandez]

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I wonder how many large flags from Spain when Rafa plays tomorrow or even tonight, how many United States "Old Glory" Flags when Serena plays will be asked to be taken back to their cars?

Yes.

Certain countries seems to bring out the flags more than others. I see Argentinian and Serbian flags more than Spanish, French, American, German...

[AcesAnnie]

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I wonder how many large flags from Spain when Rafa plays tomorrow or even tonight, how many United States "Old Glory" Flags when Serena plays will be asked to be taken back to their cars?

Yes.

Certain countries seems to bring out the flags more than others. I see Argentinian and Serbian flags more than Spanish, French, American, German...

I don't mind the flags at all in support of the players. Like you stated and I failed to see originally the Ukrainian flag that was in the stands was not in support of a player on that day. It was in support of the protest of the war. I am all for people hanging the Ukrainian flag to support them in this war, but you are correct this event and certainly not court side where two Russian players are playing a tennis match is the place for a such protest.

Walking around the event with the flag wrapped around yourself, I have no problem at all. Sitting in the stands where a Ukrainian player is playing a match, no problem with that.