Politics Random, Random

[JazzNU]

Is this something Trump could be held accountable for post-presidency? (I'm thinking it's just wishful thinking on my part, but...)

Technically yes. What he did today and leading up to today is a crime. Acting as if this wasn't foreseeable is a joke, he's been throwing matches for days, but arguably weeks. Federal crime though. Will he pardon himself before he gets himself impeached in the next 2 weeks? We'll see. And pardons don't cover impeachments. Doesn't seem like it'll happen given GOP inaction for 4 years, but to say GOP is scrambling at this hour is a crazy understatement. They are going to try to figure out the best way to save their enabling asses.

[ponchi101]

But I keep asking the same question: can he pardon himself, first, and can he pardon himself for something that he has not even been accused of?
That would be lunacy. He could pardon himself for any and all tax violations he could think of.

[shtexas]

This does not give me comfort that the police and security will be ready for inauguration day.

[Oploskoffie]

Is this something Trump could be held accountable for post-presidency? (I'm thinking it's just wishful thinking on my part, but...)

Technically yes. What he did today and leading up to today is a crime. Acting as if this wasn't foreseeable is a joke, he's been throwing matches for days, but arguably weeks. Federal crime though. Will he pardon himself before he gets himself impeached in the next 2 weeks? We'll see. And pardons don't cover impeachments. Doesn't seem like it'll happen given GOP inaction for 4 years, but to say GOP is scrambling at this hour is a crazy understatement. They are going to try to figure out the best way to save their enabling asses.

Oh, weeks of matches at the very least. Didn't he start delegitimizing the 2020 election back in 2019 already? Anyways.... With so little time left in office, is an impeachment procedure a realistic scenario? Or can those kinds of proceedings continue beyond a person's time in office? Am I right in assuming that if he were to be impeached, he cannot pardon himself while proceedings are ongoing? (I've been trying to do some homework on this, but the internet doesn't always agree depending on where you read stuff.... (duh, I know...))

[ti-amie]

Apologists like Chuck Todd on MSNBC are calling for his immediate impeachment and removal from office.
I'm not sure what other apologists are saying.

[ti-amie]

[JazzNU]

But I keep asking the same question: can he pardon himself, first, and can he pardon himself for something that he has not even been accused of?
That would be lunacy. He could pardon himself for any and all tax violations he could think of.

This is all untested. If he pardons himself, that is very suspect. But if as many think, he resigns and Pence pardons him, then yes, likely he gets away with it. That's what happened with Ford and Nixon. Nixon wasn't charged with anything, he was pardoned for possible future crimes that would've been charged. However, many forget to mention, that this sort of blanket pardon of even crimes that haven't been charged has never been legally challenged. So it's thought that that kind of pardon would likely stand using Nixon as an example, but no one really knows. Because though Nixon is an example of the action, it's not a legal precedent in any way.

This applies to federal crimes and only federal crimes. He's got 99 problems in the state of New York, tax violations included.

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

Ed O'Keefe @edokeefe
JUST NOW:
@SenDuckworth tells us on @CBSNews that a "Quick-thinking" Senate aide seized copies of the Electoral College certificates before they all evacuated the chamber.
Duckworth says Democratic senators are on a group text pushing their leaders to meet w/ Republican leadership to reconvene and continue their work tonight.
"This is Donald Trump's fault," @SenDuckworth tells @cbsnews. Adds later: "Never would I have imagined that this could possibly happen. ... But you know what? Democracy will prevail."

[ti-amie]

5:01 p.m.

Ivanka Trump deletes tweet calling mob ‘American Patriots’ after pushback
By Meryl Kornfield
Soon after facing backlash, Ivanka Trump deleted her tweet describing the mob that violently stormed the Capitol as “American Patriots” and condemned the violence.

In the now-deleted tweet, the president’s eldest daughter wrote, “American Patriots — any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable. The violence must stop immediately. Please be peaceful.”



Critics responded to the tweet, questioning whether the intruders who disrupted and threatened lawmakers could be considered “patriots.”

CNN’s chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, compared the mob to “domestic terrorists,” disputing Trump’s assertion that the protesters were patriots.

“That’s not what I would call them,” Borger said. “These are people who march there to do damage.”

Around the time she deleted her tweet, Trump also clarified that she did not view the violent mob as patriotic.

“Clarifying, @IvankaTrump, you’re saying these people are ‘patriots’ ??” asked CNN’s Kate Bennett.

“No,” Trump answered. “Peaceful protest is patriotic. Violence is unacceptable and must be condemned in the strongest terms.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... e-updates/

[mmmm8]

what are the chances nothing classified is lying around in those Congresspeople's offices?

[ti-amie]

what are the chances nothing classified is lying around in those Congresspeople's offices?

Slim and none.

[JazzNU]

Oh, weeks of matches at the very least. Didn't he start delegitimizing the 2020 election back in 2019 already? Anyways.... With so little time left in office, is an impeachment procedure a realistic scenario? Or can those kinds of proceedings continue beyond a person's time in office? Am I right in assuming that if he were to be impeached, he cannot pardon himself while proceedings are ongoing? (I've been trying to do some homework on this, but the internet doesn't always agree depending on where you read stuff.... (duh, I know...))

He definitely can't pardon himself if he's impeached, and he if impeachment articles are passed to initiate fairy quickly, unlikely to be able to do much before then for anyone that isn't in the works. Are we dreaming this will come to pass? Yes. But like i said, GOP is scrambling big time at this hour.

If Senate impeaches him, he can't hold future federal office, so it'll cut off the possibility of 2024. Someone in Congress is surely drawing up articles as I write this.

Incitement of violence is always a crime. That's what I meant by at the very least days of match throwing. But even without the days and days of it, today's rally and subsequently telling the mob to storm the Capitol is plenty. There are obvious orange handprints all over today's insurrection and there's just no getting around that.

[mmmm8]

Am I wrong to think impeaching him now would incite more violence and lead to Pence issuing him a pardon? I know it would cut off 2024 (if it passes), but could it also make him a martyr?

[ti-amie]

I'm torn about it too mmmm8. I don't know what the best way to proceed is.