Talk About Tennis 2.0

Yes. That is the entire base of a democracy. While individual freedoms are paramount for a democracy, some public issues will trump those freedoms. The vaccines have proven to be effective and innocuous as far as creating side effects. Therefore, in this case the needs of the many (the society) trump the needs of the few (the individual).
There is no difference here than the requirements set in almost all democracies regarding vaccinations of small children prior to go to school.
There is a moment in which the answers are not "well, let's split this down the middle". Sometimes, one side is simply right and the other simply wrong. That is the case right now. If you do not want to be vaccinated, then you are admitting to be outside of society. So go.

Yes. All you need is one of the unvaxxed to cause a major breakout. Imagine the lawsuits that would follow.

Your coworker is 100% correct too. Never say never they say but in this case I would say never too.

Chris Whitty suggests guidelines for use of masks after 19 July
England’s medical chief gives three situations in which it would be important to wear face covering

Prof Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, has set out three simple personal guidelines for when to continue wearing face masks after the Covid restrictions have been lifted.

Boris Johnson and Whitty were asked at Monday’s Downing Street press conference what circumstances they would still use face coverings after 19 July.

Johnson said he wanted to move away from “government diktat”. But then Whitty offered a three-part rule of thumb for continuing to wear a mask: in crowded indoor spaces; when required to by an authority; or to make someone else feel comfortable.

He said these situations were all particularly important at a time when “the epidemic is significant and rising”.

Whitty said: “The first is in any situation is indoors and crowded, or indoors with close proximity to other people. And that is because masks help protect other people.”

He added: “The second situation is if I was required to by any competent authority … And the third reason is if someone else was uncomfortable if I did not wear a mask – as a point of common courtesy.”

The chief scientist, Sir Patrick Vallance, endorsed the approach. He added: “Masks are most effective at preventing somebody else catching the disease from you, and they have some effect to prevent you catching it.”

He also played down fears that the upcoming European Championship semi-final at Wembley would be a super-spreading event. Vallance said: “It’s very often not the big outdoor environments, it’s the indoor environments with crowded spaces that become the risk of spreading, and that’s where most super-spreading events have occurred.”

Whitty’s three rules of thumb for continued mask wearing come after several cabinet ministers, including Robert Jenrick and George Eustice, have indicated they will not be wearing masks after restrictions are lifted.

Johnson said his own mask wearing “will depend on the circumstances”. He said: “What we’re trying to do is move from universal government diktat, to rely on people’s personal responsibility.

“Clearly there’s a big difference between travelling on a crowded tube train and sitting late at night in a virtually empty carriage on the main railway line. So what we want to do is for people to exercise their personal responsibility, but to remember the value of face coverings both in protecting themselves, and others.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... 1625511249

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:22 pm
I expect that courts will eventually decide this, at least to some degree, but I'll ask you all the question: Can or should companies require staff to be vaccinated before returning to work? I'm not asking how we FEEL about it. I'm asking about the LEGALITY of it. I ask because the first thought that popped into my head when I read about the firefighters at the fallen condo building was, "How the hell do we have first responders who are NOT vaccinated?"

Legally they are good to go. EEOC has been perfectly clear that employers can require vaccinations. Lawsuits have been brought in multiple places. A big one in Texas was dismissed in favor of the employer.

Personally, I can tell you the hospital my mom worked at has required the flu vaccine for the last 8 years or so. They put out announcement after announcement they'd be required, they held clinics on site to administer them, gave warning after warning after warning that they'd need to get them or be fired. Some people didn't take it seriously and were surprised when they got that pink slip. No one was given a pass without a signed medical or religious exemption in line with customary ADA regulations.

If you think about this it makes sense though. Many employers require a tetanus shot and other immunizations upon hiring and haven't faced any blowback, they check when they are doing the onboarding health screening. Again at my mom's hospital, it's strange that there were a few dozens didn't take it seriously since they already required current tetanus, MMR, and a few others before they added the flu on. People really seem to have a brain cramp where previous vaccinations they've had for decades are concerned and newer ones it seems.

A good deal of employers are holding off on requiring the covid vaccine while it is under an EUA and waiting for the full review. Many are apparently set to require Pfizer or Moderna the moment whichever gets the earliest full approval. Now those same employers that are currently scared to make the hard call now may abandon that plan as the Delta variant spreads. And as @ti said, there will be fallout, and they don't want to deal with any of it, especially it leading to vaccinated employees giving it to their kids, which is the most at risk group by a mile.


In terms of firefighters - their vaccination rates haven't been great, lower than almost all other essential workers, at
least that was the case a couple of months ago.

And... directly from the 'You can't make this stuff up' file...

Japanese Woman Attempts to Extinguish Olympic Flame With Water Pistol

She was protesting against the holding of the Olympics during the pandemic, and with only 14% of Japanese people fully vaccinated.
I applaud her - though her chosen method was neither very practical nor effective.

We in Switzerland reached the lowest point about 2 weeks ago. Now it's going up again (+63% from a week ago). I think this is inevitable (in US too), the question is how much protection will be provided to the most vulnerable population. Here, for example, full vaccination rate for 70+ is 81%. Vaccination for that group is almost over (remaining don't want to), for other age groups still ongoing strongly.

Of all people, the Governor of West Virginia summed it up best recently. As quoted in this morning's NY Times e-newsletter, anyone who is not vaccinated has willingly entered "the death lottery"...

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:23 pm Of all people, the Governor of West Virginia summed it up best recently. As quoted in this morning's NY Times e-newsletter, anyone who is not vaccinated has willingly entered "the death lottery"...

Of all people indeed. The man is damn near a caricature.

And I'm perplexed by Mitch McConnell, totally perplexed.

dryrunguy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:29 pm And I'm perplexed by Mitch McConnell, totally perplexed.

You should meet for an afternoon tea and be perplexed together.

ti-amie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:02 pm