We still talk about tennis. And much more.
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As I understood what was being said that it applied to 70% of the players in the draw of the singles events at Roland Garros, and not just to French players, though there was a reference to a French player - I assumed it was Mladenovic - who had a wealthy clothing deal that hasn't paid off.
I don't think that Ben Rothenberg understands what he is taking about. Martina is not taking part in an "anti-trans crusade". She is talking about the effect of X chromozones on muscle production. Changing your gender does not change your chromozones. Getting hormone replacement therapy does not change the amount of muscle mass accumulated before the hormone replacement therapy. In the same manner that men have an advantage over women in muscle mass accumulation, men who have changed their gender to female will still have a residual advange in muscle mass accumulation over genetic women. It is just biology. End of Rant.JTContinental wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:01 pm Ben Rothenberg reading Martina for filth. Her comeback is weak and she is quickly slipping on my list of respected elders.
"Nasty and dehumanizing" - Martina Navratilova's 'anti-trans crusade' and 'transphobic vitriol' condemned by journalist; legend hits back at criticism
But it's not that simple, and the biology is not that simple. Muscle mass can be lost very easily - ask anyone whose spent any time in hospital - and taking estrogen hormones greatly reduces muscle mass in a similar way. If it's just a matter of chromosomes than what about people born XY that never undergo male puberty because of androgen insensitivity syndrome? People with that condition seem to have some advantages in athletic competition compared to people born XX who undergo female puberty. It's a complicated issue, and probably one that has to be dealt with on a sport by sport basis, but one of the issues is that there isn't enough high level athletes in most sports to even study what advantage may exist.dave g wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:20 pm I don't think that Ben Rothenberg understands what he is taking about. Martina is not taking part in an "anti-trans crusade". She is talking about the effect of X chromozones on muscle production. Changing your gender does not change your chromozones. Getting hormone replacement therapy does not change the amount of muscle mass accumulated before the hormone replacement therapy. In the same manner that men have an advantage over women in muscle mass accumulation, men who have changed their gender to female will still have a residual advange in muscle mass accumulation over genetic women. It is just biology. End of Rant.
Good points. I agree that that unusual cases will occur, and that rules should allow for exceptions in such cases. However, writing rules that allow for exceptions is going to be difficult, and even more difficult in a public press-release format where neither side is actually listening to, or talking to the other side. It probably needs to be a private conversation between small groups of experts. Currently, we are not doing that very good at that in the US.skatingfan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:57 pmBut it's not that simple, and the biology is not that simple. Muscle mass can be lost very easily - ask anyone whose spent any time in hospital - and taking estrogen hormones greatly reduces muscle mass in a similar way. If it's just a matter of chromosomes than what about people born XY that never undergo male puberty because of androgen insensitivity syndrome? People with that condition seem to have some advantages in athletic competition compared to people born XX who undergo female puberty. It's a complicated issue, and probably one that has to be dealt with on a sport by sport basis, but one of the issues is that there isn't enough high level athletes in most sports to even study what advantage may exist.dave g wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:20 pm I don't think that Ben Rothenberg understands what he is taking about. Martina is not taking part in an "anti-trans crusade". She is talking about the effect of X chromozones on muscle production. Changing your gender does not change your chromozones. Getting hormone replacement therapy does not change the amount of muscle mass accumulated before the hormone replacement therapy. In the same manner that men have an advantage over women in muscle mass accumulation, men who have changed their gender to female will still have a residual advange in muscle mass accumulation over genetic women. It is just biology. End of Rant.
This is the basis of why I think if you're caught doping, you shouldn't ever be allowed to compete again.dave g wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 10:20 pmI don't think that Ben Rothenberg understands what he is taking about. Martina is not taking part in an "anti-trans crusade". She is talking about the effect of X chromozones on muscle production. Changing your gender does not change your chromozones. Getting hormone replacement therapy does not change the amount of muscle mass accumulated before the hormone replacement therapy. In the same manner that men have an advantage over women in muscle mass accumulation, men who have changed their gender to female will still have a residual advange in muscle mass accumulation over genetic women. It is just biology. End of Rant.JTContinental wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:01 pm Ben Rothenberg reading Martina for filth. Her comeback is weak and she is quickly slipping on my list of respected elders.
"Nasty and dehumanizing" - Martina Navratilova's 'anti-trans crusade' and 'transphobic vitriol' condemned by journalist; legend hits back at criticism
C'mon, Ashkor. You are too much a person of the world to even ponder such a question.