'23 Wimbledon Day 13 OoP & Discussion

[nelslus]

Sometimes, arguments can feel like bending oneself into a pretzel.

I mean, what's complicated to get that, at least for now, Ons has not shown a sufficient champion's mentality? You have to win at least one of the biggest tournaments of your sport to be considered to be....well, a champion.

I haven't watched the whole final yet. But, I mean- both sets, Ons went up a break. I did see almost all of the second set. Ons just had such a down, negative affect, and made way too many simple and really bad errors.

Yes. IMO, Ons crumbled.

Now, Ons, of course, has time. Evert lost her first three Slam singles finals. Ons is more than talented enough to get some Slam wins. She's already had an excellent career. Heck, if shaky-shakes Sabalenka can win a Slam title.....But, who knows?

BTW, I'm currently watching the Doubles Definition of players not having champions' mentalities- Granollers and Zeballos- especially Granollers.

[nelslus]

Anyway how many more GS titles for Vondrousova?

Wild guess.....0. (See: Majoli, Iva.)

[texasniteowl]

Anyway how many more GS titles for Vondrousova?

I'm a little torn on what I think about that. She was injured for so long. I had honestly forgotten she made the RG final years ago. But she is only 24.

Did she have an easier draw than Jabeur? Yes and no. I mean, she beat #12 Kudermetova, #20 Vekic, #32 Bouzkova, and #4 Pegula, then Svitolina. Jabeur had Andreescu, #9 Kvitova, and then #3 Rybakina and #2 Sabalenka.

I haven't watched her play in a long long time, so honestly the SF against Svitolina was the first I'd seen in a while and her game looked so effortless and suited for grass, so it was a surprise when I heard the reminder that she did so well at RG a few years ago.

I'm not sure I see her being a multi-multi-slam winner, but I could see her with at least 1 or 2 more with the right luck. But I could also see her not winning another. But regardless, she can forever say she is a Wimbledon champion.

[ashkor87]

Watson says 63% jabeur..oh oh! Danger...Watson has been remarkably consistently WRONG....

Watson maintains its perfect record!

[ponchi101]

Sometimes, arguments can feel like bending oneself into a pretzel.

I mean, what's complicated to get that, at least for now, Ons has not shown a sufficient champion's mentality? You have to win at least one of the biggest tournaments of your sport to be considered to be....well, a champion.

I haven't watched the whole final yet. But, I mean- both sets, Ons went up a break. I did see almost all of the second set. Ons just had such a down, negative affect, and made way too many simple and really bad errors.

Yes. IMO, Ons crumbled.

Now, Ons, of course, has time. Evert lost her first three Slam singles finals. Ons is more than talented enough to get some Slam wins. She's already had an excellent career. Heck, if shaky-shakes Sabalenka can win a Slam title.....But, who knows?

BTW, I'm currently watching the Doubles Definition of players not having champions' mentalities- Granollers and Zeballos- especially Granollers.

And you are making my point. Sabalenka, to many, will never be a mentally tough player. Regardless of the fact that, slams wise, she has had the best year (W, SF, SF) of all players in the tour. A narrative was set and every time Aryna loses a match, the narrative comes back: she is mentally weak.

[JTContinental]

But…being mentally weak is almost always the reason when Sabalenka does lose a match. It doesn’t mean that she is always that way, though.

Jabeur is now a modern day Jana Novotna. Maybe the 4th time will be the charm.

[nelslus]

Sometimes, arguments can feel like bending oneself into a pretzel.

I mean, what's complicated to get that, at least for now, Ons has not shown a sufficient champion's mentality? You have to win at least one of the biggest tournaments of your sport to be considered to be....well, a champion.

I haven't watched the whole final yet. But, I mean- both sets, Ons went up a break. I did see almost all of the second set. Ons just had such a down, negative affect, and made way too many simple and really bad errors.

Yes. IMO, Ons crumbled.

Now, Ons, of course, has time. Evert lost her first three Slam singles finals. Ons is more than talented enough to get some Slam wins. She's already had an excellent career. Heck, if shaky-shakes Sabalenka can win a Slam title.....But, who knows?

BTW, I'm currently watching the Doubles Definition of players not having champions' mentalities- Granollers and Zeballos- especially Granollers.

And you are making my point. Sabalenka, to many, will never be a mentally tough player. Regardless of the fact that, slams wise, she has had the best year (W, SF, SF) of all players in the tour. A narrative was set and every time Aryna loses a match, the narrative comes back: she is mentally weak.

I wasn't in the least making your point. AND- at least one time- Sabalenka showed championship form because....she won a championship.

[jazzyg]

Jabeur definitely crumbled today, particularly in the 1st set when she could not get a ball in play from 4-2 up untiil she lost it.

That does not mean she will crumble in the future. We will have to wait and see.

[Suliso]

Champions become champions by winning championships. Hasn't that been true in every sport for time immemorial?

Sabalenka was not one before she won one. Now she has and she is. That simple really.

[Suliso]

For example, Federer became champion when he won Wimbledon in 2003 not when he beat Sampras two years before.

[mick1303]

Anyway how many more GS titles for Vondrousova?

Wild guess.....0. (See: Majoli, Iva.)

This analogy is bad. Majoli's next best result in any slam was R16. For Vondrousova it was 2nd final and on a different surface. She is not a fluke.

[nelslus]

I think almost everyone can agree that it would be cruel if Jabeur doesn't take at least one Slam title. And, one should then lead to multiple Slam titles. She is so freakin' talented. Albeit, all sports can be very cruel, and remain cruel to some, too (albeit, she's a multi-millionaire, regardless).

To re-state what many have already stated- Ons puts SO much pressure on herself, to be an example for girls in her country, and throughout the world. Which is deeply admirable. But, clearly, it's leading to too much pressure. She'll also have to learn to focus on herself only as exclusively as she can when she's playing at a Slam. They showed her mental coach in the stands- so, this is very smart. I hope that she can fully understand that she already is a great role model. Let yourself win for yourself, first.

(Also- it IS also very cool that Vondroušová is now a Wimbledon champion. Both her and Ons handled the situation beautifully. And, LOL, so much for my thoughts that Vondroušová would be a one-Slam-finalist wonder.)

[nelslus]

Anyway how many more GS titles for Vondrousova?

Wild guess.....0. (See: Majoli, Iva.)

This analogy is bad. Majoli's next best result in any slam was R16. For Vondrousova it was 2nd final and on a different surface. She is not a fluke.

First, an Iva Majoli analogy is never bad. Which is also why I used the

Next- you are also mistaken. Iva, otherwise, made TWO Slam QF's- at Wimbledon and the Australian Open. And a SF at the WTA Championships. She also won 8 total WTA tournaments, and got to a best world ranking of #4. Very arguably- I was (albeit, unintentionally) doing Vondrousova a favor by using my Majoli analogy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva_Majoli

IN any case, without first having checked on Iva's results- I still say she'll have her one "lucky" Slam title win, as did Majoli- which was my intended response to Suliso's post. (AND, btw, Majoli beat Hingis in her Slam final.) IF Vondrousova wins more- I am very cool with that. She is a very fun player to watch.

[ponchi101]

Anyway how many more GS titles for Vondrousova?

Wild guess.....0. (See: Majoli, Iva.)

This analogy is bad. Majoli's next best result in any slam was R16. For Vondrousova it was 2nd final and on a different surface. She is not a fluke.

I say she has as much chance as Rybakina and Sabalenka to win two more. But the field is so even that if she never does, that is also likely.

[skatingfan]

I could see Vondrousova winning another major - I think she's a Kusnetsova - 4 years from now when no one is expecting it she'll suddenly win another one.

I really hope Jabeur wins one - Lendl, Clijsters, Murray - sometimes it takes a while for a Champion to emerge.