by ponchi101 Obviously, Jannik and Carlos have separated from the young pack. They are clearly the best of the new crop.
Who and how many will join them to become the next BIG group? And how many slams will this new group achieve?
by Suliso I would say none of the others for the next 2-3 years. Maybe Rune, but I'd not bet money on it. I've never seen Arnaldi play...
by
meganfernandez I want a "who the hell knows" option.
Most people don't have BIG-level/champion-level careers. They fluctuate a lot. It's so hard to tell who will sustain the champion level. A lot of it is circumstantial, with injuries and other life events. But they're all amazing. Sometimes I think we forget that.
I still think the serve is key, so Shelton is poised for the highest achievements if he can develop the other stuff, which remains to be seen. But the markers are positive. Roddick drilled a point on his podcast yesterday, that you need elite movement to win Slams now. His own movement wouldn't have been good enough now. Shelton probably isn't that good of a mover just yet.
I think Rune will get back to his previous level. But then, we all thought Shapo and FAA would, and they haven't yet, and it's been awhile. Those careers are more common than Sinner's and Alcaraz's.
by Suliso It is of course true that 99.9% players don't have multi Slam careers and many of them are still amazing. Nevertheless OCCASIONALLY a new player rises up and you feel straight away that horrible injuries aside they're likely to win many. The former big three were like that and I think the current top two are as well. For example, Federer winning many Slams was "obvious" long before he won his first. At least since he beat Pete at Wimbledon if not before.
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meganfernandez Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:49 pm
It is of course true that 99.9% players don't have multi Slam careers and many of them are still amazing. Nevertheless OCCASIONALLY a new player rises up and you feel straight away that horrible injuries aside they're likely to win many. The former big three were like that and I think the current top two are as well. For example, Federer winning many Slams was "obvious" long before he won his first. At least since he beat Pete at Wimbledon if not before.
There's a category of "when, not if" players that you're talking about, the way we assess potential. I'd love to know how many of them became whens. I bet less than 50%. Keys, for instance. She was talked about as a definite "when, not if." Didn't happen. Grigor, didn't happen. Zverev was a "when, not if" IMO. Hasn't happened and probably won't. Can't just say the Big 3 got in his way - that's part of the If. Will you be be able to break through the competition? He hasn't and IMO probably won't without some incredible luck.
by Suliso I don't agree - none of the players you listed where "when, not if". Such players appear on the horizon very rarely. Maybe 4-5 times per decade if even that.
by Suliso From those who haven't won yet MAYBE Andreeva (needs the first big result). Nobody else on either tour right now.
by JTContinental Keys was definitely talked about as a “when, not if” when she started out, particularly when Davenport was her coach.
by Suliso Lots of players are hyped up too much. Of course this assesment not 100% foolproof.
by
meganfernandez JTContinental wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:54 pm
Keys was definitely talked about as a “when, not if” when she started out, particularly when Davenport was her coach.
I know Wertheim called her when, not if. He's the one I hear use that phrase.
by Suliso In this century who wasn't "when not if" for me, but won 2+ on ATP tour? Only Wawrinka.
For women there are few more I didn't see early - Kuznetsova, Li, Kvitova, Azarenka, Muguruza and Kerber. Also Rybakina if she wins another.
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meganfernandez Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:41 pm
In this century who wasn't "when not if" for me, but won 2+ on ATP tour? Only Wawrinka.
For women there are few more I didn't see early - Kuznetsova, Li, Kvitova, Azarenka, Muguruza and Kerber. Also Rybakina if she wins another.
Good call on Wawrinka. A lot of those women were surprises at the time, I agree, other than Azarenka. Li had grown into it by the time she won. Right now I think a lot of people would consider Andreeva a "when not if." Coco was and she made good.
I digress on the original topic, though.
by Owendonovan I kinda expect Ons and Svitolina to grab a slam sometime. Rune and Shelton sneak one in on a draw that opens up for them.
by ti-amie Two or three years ago Svitolina was a "when not if" for me but I think her time has past.
Ons playing injured may have hurt her chances for a Slam.
Emotionally Rune has gone backwards and that is why his game has stalled. He needed one voice in his ear but someone (his mother?) had everyone and their brother talking to him at the same time and thus he reaches critical points in a match and often gets mind freeze.
My tennis friend who used to coach said Shelton is going to have a career like Shapovalov. It would be nice if he didn't but he needs to get a permanent coach. His dad won't take him to the next level. By the time Shapo made the change from his mom it was too late.
If possible Ponchi can you do this poll again at the end of the year?
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meganfernandez ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:58 pm
Two or three years ago Svitolina was a "when not if" for me but I think her time has past.
Ons playing injured may have hurt her chances for a Slam.
Emotionally Rune has gone backwards and that is why his game has stalled. He needed one voice in his ear but someone (his mother?) had everyone and their brother talking to him at the same time and thus he reaches critical points in a match and often gets mind freeze.
My tennis friend who used to coach said Shelton is going to have a career like Shapovalov. It would be nice if he didn't but he needs to get a permanent coach. His dad won't take him to the next level. By the time Shapo made the change from his mom it was too late.
If possible Ponchi can you do this poll again at the end of the year?
Yes, Svitolina was. Maybe Pliskova. Wozniacki, too, and she barely squeaked in there. Was down and out in R2 that year.
I have higher hopes for Shelton because of the lefty serve. Huge weapon. Better than Shapo's lefty serve. And maybe Ben will get another voice. But Brian Shelton could be a better coach than Shapo's mom. Curious why your friend thinks he's inadequate. I wouldn't write off every parent as the wrong coach.
I still think Ons has a chance on grass for a couple more years.
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meganfernandez Owendonovan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:10 pm
I kinda expect Ons and Svitolina to grab a slam sometime. Rune and Shelton sneak one in on a draw that opens up for them.
Svitolina could sneak through with help from the draw and on a fast surface, which she likes. She had a great shot at Wimbledon last year.
by jazzyg The last time Svitolina won a 500 event was September of 2020. The last time she won something bigger than that was the year-end finals in 2018.
All of her losses deep in slams have been straight-set blowouts. She went 8-6 this year on clay.
I'd love to see her win a slam, but I can't imagine it actually happening with her current form and lack of big-match success for her entire career.
by
meganfernandez jazzyg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:59 pm
The last time Svitolina won a 500 event was September of 2020. The last time she won something bigger than that was the year-end finals in 2018.
All of her losses deep in slams have been straight-set blowouts. She went 8-6 this year on clay.
I'd love to see her win a slam, but I can't imagine it actually happening with her current form and lack of big-match success for her entire career.
Svitolina's weak second serve held her back. She compensated for a lack of power otherwise, very well.
by
ponchi101 ti-amie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:58 pm
...
If possible Ponchi can you do this poll again at the end of the year?
Don't need to. The poll will remain open and you can change your picks as many times as you like.
So when Anastasio Maranga from El Salvador wins the USO, coming from the qualies, you will be able to click that OTHER button.
(I just made that name up).
by ponchi101 I put in Shelton because a big left handed serve will always give you a chance anywhere. But he is a long shot to me.
I picked OTHER. I don't see a true contender for greatness other than Alcaraz, and I include Sinner there. Greatness here defined to 10+ slams.
So, I will wait for that other guy to sneak into the conversation.
BTW. Alcaraz now has done this pattern: 1St slam. Then, win the THIRD one after that one, and repeat. So, he is due for an Aussie next year.
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meganfernandez ponchi101 wrote:I put in Shelton because a big left handed serve will always give you a chance anywhere. But he is a long shot to me.
I picked OTHER. I don't see a true contender for greatness other than Alcaraz, and I include Sinner there. Greatness here defined to 10+ slams.
So, I will wait for that other guy to sneak into the conversation.
BTW. Alcaraz now has done this pattern: 1St slam. Then, win the THIRD one after that one, and repeat. So, he is due for an Aussie next year.
I think he will win Wimbledon.
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by
Fastbackss meganfernandez wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:39 am
ponchi101 wrote:I put in Shelton because a big left handed serve will always give you a chance anywhere. But he is a long shot to me.
I picked OTHER. I don't see a true contender for greatness other than Alcaraz, and I include Sinner there. Greatness here defined to 10+ slams.
So, I will wait for that other guy to sneak into the conversation.
BTW. Alcaraz now has done this pattern: 1St slam. Then, win the THIRD one after that one, and repeat. So, he is due for an Aussie next year.
I think he will win Wimbledon.
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Shelton or alcaraz
by Suliso Svitolina was never a sure Slam winner. A female version of Ferrer.
Also we're discussing here players for whom 2 career Slams is underperforming.
by
ashkor87 Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:23 pm
From those who haven't won yet MAYBE Andreeva (needs the first big result). Nobody else on either tour right now.
Andreeva certainly, also perhaps Noskova
by ashkor87 I like Michelsen a lot..he has a very positive game, likes to volley..more complete game already than some others...I had mentioned Parks but she needs a coach first
by atlpam I like Shelton because he has the attitude to be a big match player, but he definitely needs to mature as a player in terms of point construction and shot selection.
For other, I like Musetti - not sure he'll get there, but a lot of fun to watch.
by ponchi101 Musetti is one guy that I love his style of play, but will never bet he will win anything big. There is something about the BH that is missing; it doesn't travel and I think he is vulnerable on that wing.
And you know I love a one hander.
About the women. I started this topic thinking about the ATP. But, for the WTA, I believe we will have a lot of 2 slam winners. Iga will get to 10 because she will win a few more RG's and some of the other three, although I don't see her winning Wimbledon. Other than that, get ready for Andreeva, Noskova, Fruhvirtova, Whothehellova, Imsurprisedova, and Impossibleova to win slams.
by JTContinental I'm not so sure about the Czech teen contingent anymore. They seem to be fading to middle of the pack status.
by
ti-amie atlpam wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:40 pm
I like Shelton because he has the attitude to be a big match player, but he definitely needs to mature as a player in terms of point construction and shot selection.
For other, I like Musetti - not sure he'll get there, but a lot of fun to watch.
I totally agree about Shelton. He needs a coach.
by ashkor87 What is the point of 'other' as an option here, in this context? Simpler to not vote for a third person ..? I can understand 'other' as an option when the question is something as specific as 'who will win Wimbledon' and you don't think any of the named players is going to win.
by patrick My vote is to retire the BIG concept. BIG is used too much for me.
by
ponchi101 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:19 pm
What is the point of 'other' as an option here, in this context? Simpler to not vote for a third person ..? I can understand 'other' as an option when the question is something as specific as 'who will win Wimbledon' and you don't think any of the named players is going to win.
Because maybe somebody thinks that Seba Baez will soon turn the corner, and I did not include him in the list.
So you can tick OTHER and explain it in the topic.
patrick wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:45 am
My vote is to retire the BIG concept. BIG is used too much for me.
The problem with that is that there always have been the BIG something. In the 70's it was Borg, Connors and Mac, who then became Connors, Mac and Lendl, who then became Lendl, Wilander, Becker and Edberg, who then yielded to Pete, Andre, Courier and Kafelnikov (?) and who then led to the three monsters.
Anyway. Two members of the forum, during the French, proposed this topic. I simply implemented it.
by
mick1303 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:27 pm
Obviously, Jannik and Carlos have separated from the young pack. They are clearly the best of the new crop.
Who and how many will join them to become the next BIG group? And how many slams will this new group achieve?
That is not the poll I was interested in. I want to know who is most popular on this particular site between Alcaraz and Sinner. Strict and unambiguous question (and answer) - who would you root for when they play each other.
by ashkor87 Sinner on a fast court like AO, Turin, Alcaraz on a slow court like RG, IW..
by
meganfernandez mick1303 wrote:ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:27 pm
Obviously, Jannik and Carlos have separated from the young pack. They are clearly the best of the new crop.
Who and how many will join them to become the next BIG group? And how many slams will this new group achieve?
That is not the poll I was interested in. I want to know who is most popular on this particular site between Alcaraz and Sinner. Strict and unambiguous question (and answer) - who would you root for when they play each other.
Sinner
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by
mick1303 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:13 am
Sinner on a fast court like AO, Turin, Alcaraz on a slow court like RG, IW..
Your rooting interest changes depending on the surface? This is quite exotic ))
by ashkor87 Not rooting, betting
by ponchi101 I prefer Carlitos. His maniacal way of chasing down balls was how I used to play when I was younger (of course, one or two orders of magnitude lower). Sinner is one hell of a player and he is a very fine person (it seems), but his style is not as flashy.
by JTContinental Sinner
I don't know why, but I find Alcaraz spectacularly uninteresting
by
ti-amie JTContinental wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 7:47 pm
Sinner
I don't know why, but I find Alcaraz spectacularly uninteresting
And this is how warring fandoms start! Sinner is my cure for insomnia!
by Suliso Sinner for me too.
by
nelslus meganfernandez wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:27 pm
mick1303 wrote:ponchi101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:27 pm
Obviously, Jannik and Carlos have separated from the young pack. They are clearly the best of the new crop.
Who and how many will join them to become the next BIG group? And how many slams will this new group achieve?
That is not the poll I was interested in. I want to know who is most popular on this particular site between Alcaraz and Sinner. Strict and unambiguous question (and answer) - who would you root for when they play each other.
Sinner
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WELL. Aren't we ALL just SHOCKED!!
IN the very same vein, I go with Carlos.
by ashkor87 Looks like Sinner is getting to be the new Djokovic..the best player but with no fans!
by Owendonovan I like Sinner because he just seems less obvious about his abilities.
by
Owendonovan Owendonovan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2024 11:15 am
I like Sinner because he just seems less obvious about his abilities.
(but if Alcaraz isn't in the same tourney as Sinner I like Alcaraz)
by
mick1303 ashkor87 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:54 am
Looks like Sinner is getting to be the new Djokovic..the best player but with no fans!
It is possible that you are mistaken on both counts. Don't want to discuss fans (or lack thereof) of Djokovic. But between Sinner and Alcaraz I'm choosing Sinner.
by Suliso Sinner has plenty of fans, including in this community.
by ponchi101 I said I prefer Alcaraz but, personality wise, it is a tie. Both are extremely likeable people, not only players. Sinner has made plenty of statements to show that he is a grounded guy, and easy to like. In that aspect, the ATP's popularity is in very good hands.
by mick1303 I've created a poll on Alcaraz-vs-Sinner on the Tennis discord. Their engine allows regular posters to create polls.
by ponchi101 I don't understand still how come regular users here cannot create polls. There is no activate/deactivate for users.
I will check with the people at phpBB.
by
skatingfan ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:59 pm
I don't understand still how come regular users here cannot create polls. There is no activate/deactivate for users.
I will check with the people at phpBB.
How do you create a poll? When you go to the link to create a new thread I don't see an option to create a poll.
by
ponchi101 skatingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 4:54 pm
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:59 pm
I don't understand still how come regular users here cannot create polls. There is no activate/deactivate for users.
I will check with the people at phpBB.
How do you create a poll? When you go to the link to create a new thread I don't see an option to create a poll.
That is what has me so puzzled. I get a tab, under the new topic, and I can create the poll. And that is the screen shot for all users, in the extension download page.
And nobody, other than the admins, can see it. So I am waiting for the people from phpBB to tell me what I am doing wrong.
by
ponchi101 mick1303 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:56 am
I've created a poll on Alcaraz-vs-Sinner on the Tennis discord. Their engine allows regular posters to create polls.
Hi Mick.
I was able to figure out hot to allow members to create. Just a simple check mark in the right place.
Can you see if you can create a topic and the CREATE POLL tab is there? And if so, feel free to recreate the poll here.
Thanks.
by
skatingfan ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 1:32 am
Hi Mick.
I was able to figure out hot to allow members to create. Just a simple check mark in the right place.
Can you see if you can create a topic and the CREATE POLL tab is there? And if so, feel free to recreate the poll here.
Thanks.
Not Mick, but I can see the option to create polls now.
by
ti-amie skatingfan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 1:51 am
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 1:32 am
Hi Mick.
I was able to figure out hot to allow members to create. Just a simple check mark in the right place.
Can you see if you can create a topic and the CREATE POLL tab is there? And if so, feel free to recreate the poll here.
Thanks.
Not Mick, but I can see the option to create polls now.
Ditto
by
ponchi101 Txs.
Poll away, gang!
by
mick1303 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 2:41 am
Txs.
Poll away, gang!
Thank you, now I can see that it works.
by mick1303 But.
I can see the poll option when I'm creating a new topic. However when I'm creating the post (or reply) within existing topic, the "poll" tab is absent.
by
ponchi101 mick1303 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:27 am
But.
I can see the poll option when I'm creating a new topic. However when I'm creating the post (or reply) within existing topic, the "poll" tab is absent.
Yes, you can only create a poll when creating a topic OR editing the first post of the topic. You cannot create polls halfway, and that includes me.
That limitation is built in, because otherwise multiple people could create multiple polls within the same topic. Disaster could ensue.