Talk About Tennis 2.0

Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..

Serena is back! Entered W with a wild card and doubles at Eastbourne with Jabeur

ashkor87 wrote:Serena is back! Entered W with a wild card and doubles at Eastbourne with Jabeur

Yep. Just because we didn’t see her training doesn’t mean she wasn’t. (Or maybe she really wasn't.) Love that she is playing with Jabeur. Quite an endorsement. Interesting that Venus didn’t enter with Serena.

I know what you mean about Jabeur. Sometimes we don’t see it until… well, we see it. I think she can win Wimbledon. I think she believes enough and definitely has the game. She isn’t as outwardly ferocious like Iga or Serena or Sabalenka, but I think she wants it badly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree about Jabeur having the ability to win Wimbledon. I don't expect it to happen, but in the totally wide open field, I'd definitely put her in the top five. She looked like she might do it last year, dominating Muguruza and Swiatek in the second and third sets of their matches before running out of ideas against Sabalenka's power and deciding to hit a drop shot on every point in the quarters.

There's no one in the draw I would not give her an excellent chance of beating. The problem is how many times she finds a way to beat herself.

Gauff is an interesting case. On athletic ability, power and desire, she should be a contender, but I can't get past her extreme western grip. The tennis world has changed dramatically since the 1990s, but I remember when Berasategui reached the Roland Garros final in 1994, the commentators all made fun of his "crazy" windshield wiper grip in which he hit the ball on the same side of his racquet with his forehand and backhand. They insisted it only worked on clay.

Nearly 30 years later, Gauff has the same grip as Berasategui did, and it is interesting to me that her best slam results have come at Roland Garros. She needs a lot of time to hit that forehand properly, and even though grass has changed a lot, it still rewards players with compact, relatively flat shots. Maybe the game and technique have changed enough that it won't affect her, but I wonder about her up side on fast courts.

jazzyg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:10 pm Gauff is an interesting case. On athletic ability, power and desire, she should be a contender, but I can't get past her extreme western grip. The tennis world has changed dramatically since the 1990s, but I remember when Berasategui reached the Roland Garros final in 1994, the commentators all made fun of his "crazy" windshield wiper grip in which he hit the ball on the same side of his racquet with his forehand and backhand. They insisted it only worked on clay.

Nearly 30 years later, Gauff has the same grip as Berasategui did, and it is interesting to me that her best slam results have come at Roland Garros. She needs a lot of time to hit that forehand properly, and even though grass has changed a lot, it still rewards players with compact, relatively flat shots. Maybe the game and technique have changed enough that it won't affect her, but I wonder about her up side on fast courts.

Doesn't Swiatek have a Western grip, too? Apropos of nothing.

I think there should be a way to adjust. Maybe she has to come in more. Why can't someone shorten their swing with a Western grip?

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:26 pm Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..

A lot of players have western grips, but Jazzyg is talking about the BERASATEGUI western grip. In reality, it was never a forehand grip; it was a western BACKHAND grip (think Stan's) and then you rotate the hand towards your forehand side and hit it that way. As Jazzyg said, you end up hitting the ball, always, with the same face of the racquet. It was an insane grip (Berasategui's) that allowed him to put extreme spin on the ball, but it is a liability when having to hit a low ball.
I did not know Gauff hit with that grip, and was obviously not paying attention during the RG final. Will keep an eye on that.
---0---
Serena has a WC. Does she get seeded? At a minimum, I would say that the AELTC has to seed her #32. And, how far does she go? 3R? SF's? Is she a contender?

She won't be seeded, I think.

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:48 pm She won't be seeded, I think.

I don't think Serena will be seeded, either. Doesn't deserve to be. I don't know if they would seed her based on her performance in doubles with Jabeur. Maybe if she looks like the old Serena, serving lights out, they will.

Thanks, ponch. I'd forgotten it was the backhand side. As someone who plays with a continental grip and never changes it even for serving, I know zilch about western grips other than what I hear.

A friend of mine when I lived in Florida in the late 1990s played with the Berasategui grip and had a monster forehand. I asked him how he had developed it, and he said it was the way he had always hit. A few years later, I watched little kids taking lessons at the public tennis courts where I played and all of them looked like they were using the Berasategui grip.

Megan, I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that Gauff is the only current top player with the windshield wiper approach, but that doe not come from my observation. It's just what I've heard from commentary.

meganfernandez wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:14 pm

Suliso wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:48 pm She won't be seeded, I think.

I don't think Serena will be seeded, either. Doesn't deserve to be. I don't know if they would seed her based on her performance in doubles with Jabeur. Maybe if she looks like the old Serena, serving lights out, they will.

She was ranked 8 last year at this time, so probably does deserve to be seeded. I agree that she will not be, however.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:59 am Let us watch and see how Qinwen Zheng adapts to grass..she has the game..can she adapt is the only question..she is entered in Berlin, I believe...

She lost to Alycia Parks today in a first round match, so I don't think I'd pencil her in to go too far.

jazzyg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:40 pm Thanks, ponch. I'd forgotten it was the backhand side. As someone who plays with a continental grip and never changes it even for serving, I know zilch about western grips other than what I hear.

...

I admire anybody that can play with a continental

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:26 pm Jabeur doesn't have that indefinable somethng I call 'class'..just an opinion, of course..

I read this last night and though I could just let it go, but it has really stuck in my craw. Please enlighten me on what you mean. My understanding of "class" as you are using it refers to how someone acts under pressure or in difficult situations. As far as I know, Jabeur has only ever been polite, engaging, smart, and gracious. When she lost out on qualifying for the YEC last year or the year before, in the last match of the regular season (Kontaveit, right?), she sent Kontaveit a funny message congratulating her on IG or somewhere. She has had to bear the weight of being the first African woman and the first Muslim woman to reach the upper echelons of women's tennis and unless I've missed something, she's understood that role really well. I don't remember seeing her pitching fits, breaking rackets, or walking off the court after a lost set. I know you said it's "indefinable", but by all means, do your best to define it because I'm totally lost.

Venus and Serena were also labeled as not having class at various times in their careers. A physical therapist that I was working with once said something exactly to that effect that I won't repeat here. She couldn't define it either.

Also, I would say that "class" has little or nothing to do with tennis matches. Many people thought McEnroe and Connors didn't have class and they did alright. Martina Hingis was a brat on court (see RG final against Steffi) yet she did OK as well.

Kevin