Page 59 of 143
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:02 pm
by JazzNU
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:03 pm
Why is that surprising? I don't own a car and drive much by choice not because I wouldn't know how or couldn't afford. Public transport here is outstanding and I live walking distance from both the city center and the central railway station.
Because Basel isn't the size of Paris and how would I know a city that size has public transportation so good that you wouldn't need a car? Very few Americans are going to know that about Basel who haven't been there FYI. I never even hinted that you couldn't afford a car and obviously you know how to drive, you just said you had in 2019.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:49 pm
by ti-amie
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:12 pm
by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:03 pm
...
Why is that surprising? I don't own a car and drive much by choice not because I wouldn't know how or couldn't afford. Public transport here is outstanding and I live walking distance from both the city center and the central railway station.
That is the difference. Public transport here is efficient, but it is a nightmare. The bus load limit is basically "as many people can climb in", and the seats are the cheap, fiberglass/plastic type that after a ride leave you with the feeling that somebody with a cricket bat used you to practice her swing.
Plus, Bogota is a rainy city. So, even though the system is efficient, you are always dropped a couple of blocks off where you are going. If it is raining, and it gets cold, it gets uncomfortable.
Plus, forget about schedules. You really never know when the bus will arrive. The main routes have many coming all the time, but some other routes you can wait for 1/2 hour, with nothing coming. Then, two buses arrive at the same time. It is not Swiss efficiency (or Helsinki, the one place where I rode a bus just for riding the bus. It was incredible).
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:31 pm
by mmmm8
JazzNU wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:02 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:03 pm
Why is that surprising? I don't own a car and drive much by choice not because I wouldn't know how or couldn't afford. Public transport here is outstanding and I live walking distance from both the city center and the central railway station.
Because Basel isn't the size of Paris and how would I know a city that size has public transportation so good that you wouldn't need a car? Very few Americans are going to know that about Basel who haven't been there FYI. I never even hinted that you couldn't afford a car and obviously you know how to drive, you just said you had in 2019.
You can safely assume any city of more than 50,000 people or so in Europe and Central Asia has very good public transport and that inter-city bus, rail, and air service is also easily available and accessible.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:37 pm
by mmmm8
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:12 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:03 pm
...
Why is that surprising? I don't own a car and drive much by choice not because I wouldn't know how or couldn't afford. Public transport here is outstanding and I live walking distance from both the city center and the central railway station.
That is the difference. Public transport here is efficient, but it is a nightmare. The bus load limit is basically "as many people can climb in", and the seats are the cheap, fiberglass/plastic type that after a ride leave you with the feeling that somebody with a cricket bat used you to practice her swing.
Plus, Bogota is a rainy city. So, even though the system is efficient, you are always dropped a couple of blocks off where you are going. If it is raining, and it gets cold, it gets uncomfortable.
Plus, forget about schedules. You really never know when the bus will arrive. The main routes have many coming all the time, but some other routes you can wait for 1/2 hour, with nothing coming. Then, two buses arrive at the same time. It is not Swiss efficiency (or Helsinki, the one place where I rode a bus just for riding the bus. It was incredible).
On the other hand, sitting in traffic in Bogota was one of the four single worst traffic jams I'd ever experienced (for reference, Moscow, New York and DC were the others). The big advantage of your bus service is the dedicated bus lanes that are separated from the car lanes by a barrier on major roadways. This prevents cars from entering them and makes the bus system so efficient (although it's definitely very crowded and that's surely not very safe right now). But I think it's such a good alternative to a subway system, which would be expensive and disruptive.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:25 pm
by Suliso
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:12 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:03 pm
...
Why is that surprising? I don't own a car and drive much by choice not because I wouldn't know how or couldn't afford. Public transport here is outstanding and I live walking distance from both the city center and the central railway station.
That is the difference. Public transport here is efficient, but it is a nightmare. The bus load limit is basically "as many people can climb in", and the seats are the cheap, fiberglass/plastic type that after a ride leave you with the feeling that somebody with a cricket bat used you to practice her swing.
Plus, Bogota is a rainy city. So, even though the system is efficient, you are always dropped a couple of blocks off where you are going. If it is raining, and it gets cold, it gets uncomfortable.
Plus, forget about schedules. You really never know when the bus will arrive. The main routes have many coming all the time, but some other routes you can wait for 1/2 hour, with nothing coming. Then, two buses arrive at the same time. It is not Swiss efficiency (or Helsinki, the one place where I rode a bus just for riding the bus. It was incredible).
That's why most people prefer rail based public transport even if buses are better than the ones you describe. A city the size of Bogota really ought to have a dense metro network...
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:13 pm
by Suliso
Basel (ca 0.6 million inhabitants in metro area) has 12 tram lines, 7 S-Bahn lines and numerous bus routes in both the core city and suburbs (in three countries). I think it's adequate for our needs. We're too small to need any underground transport.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:51 pm
by ponchi101
Bogota has been planning a subway for decades, but the engineering is not easy. The ground beneath the city will not be able to support it in many sections, and the city is a valley within two ridges. The need for incredibly efficient and fast water pumping will be huge.
@M8. Indeed, traffic here is terrible. But the buses you saw are part of the TRANSMILENIO system, which are not all of the buses. Many routes simply are stuck in the same traffic as the rest of the cars.
Anyway, the expected problems for a city of 8-10 million, which was not planned well in advance.
600K people are just my section of town, which is not the largest. 12 tram lines and the 7 S-Bhan would be heaven here.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:16 pm
by Suliso
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:51 pm
Bogota has been planning a subway for decades, but the engineering is not easy.
The ground beneath the city will not be able to support it in many sections, and the city is a valley within two ridges. The need for incredibly efficient and fast water pumping will be huge.
Why is that?
Also Medellin (3.6 million) does have rail based and gondola based public transport. Is the geography there significantly more favorable or just the city government better?
If underground is not feasible elevated should be. That's what a lot of Asian cities are doing outside immediate historic area. Saves a lot of money for sure at the cost of view and a bit more congestion above ground.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:51 pm
by ti-amie
More from the "Judge" overseeing the Rittenhouse trial. I don't know what to say.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:24 pm
by ti-amie
That Yote Carlo
@CarloCoyote
I have a problem with the idea that one can be such a “non-expert” in pinch zooming in 2021 that they believe touching a video falsifies it while holding a position of trust where decisions based on that reasoning affect the people’s freedom and the course of their lives
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:44 pm
by ponchi101
Suliso wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:16 pm
...
Why is that?
Also Medellin (3.6 million) does have rail based and gondola based public transport. Is the geography there significantly more favorable or just the city government better?
If underground is not feasible elevated should be. That's what a lot of Asian cities are doing outside immediate historic area. Saves a lot of money for sure at the cost of view and a bit more congestion above ground.
When the project has been discussed, the engineers claim that the ground is too soft and soggy, so the cost is very high. Digging and drilling would not be too tough, but then the tunnels would have to be very strong. That is the part that I have heard.
Is Medellin more organized? I don't know. I know the government here, when it comes to infrastructure, is very inefficient. The airport took decades to be built, and by the time it was ready, the capacity did not meet demand. You know, there is a reason we are South America
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:45 pm
by mmmm8
ponchi101 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:51 pm
Bogota has been planning a subway for decades, but the engineering is not easy. The ground beneath the city will not be able to support it in many sections, and the city is a valley within two ridges. The need for incredibly efficient and fast water pumping will be huge.
@M8. Indeed, traffic here is terrible.
But the buses you saw are part of the TRANSMILENIO system, which are not all of the buses. Many routes simply are stuck in the same traffic as the rest of the cars.
Anyway, the expected problems for a city of 8-10 million, which was not planned well in advance.
600K people are just my section of town, which is not the largest. 12 tram lines and the 7 S-Bhan would be heaven here.
Yes, but that's the case with many cities with subway networks - the stops are too far apart and the transport between stops, while plentiful, is subject to traffic.
A fun fact is that there are projected to be 700+ cities with more than 1 million inhabitants globally by 2030. Only 178 cities have subway systems.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:34 pm
by JazzNU
ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:51 pm
More from the "Judge" overseeing the Rittenhouse trial. I don't know what to say.
But he did say something that rang very true there. "My few remaining friends" sounds like the most honest and accurate thing this man has ever said.
Re: National, Regional and Local News
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:14 pm
by ponchi101
Both of them must be recalculating "do I want to be associated with this guy?"
(They'll say yes, but I hope a glimmer of doubt is sown).