by mick1303 I was always wondering - why is that so complicated for English-speaking announcers to pronounce Russian (Slavic) last names correctly. It is not like they are Vietnamese and require totally different phonetics. One just has to memorize which syllable is to put an emphasis on. But somehow they are butchering it if it is possible to butcher. Every single time. Is it their subtle (or not so subtle) way to show disrespect? Is it the follow-up of the cold war? Even when an umpire pronounces the name correctly, they continue to say it their preferred (incorrect) way.
by mick1303 Let's start from the top: it is not MEdvedev, it is MedvEdev.
by
dave g mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:09 pm
it their subtle (or not so subtle) way to show disrespect?
No. It is their not very subtle way of showing their (our) ignorance. It is useful for us Americans (and others) to have native speakers explain the correct pronunciation, since we usually only see the spelling.
"Let's start from the top: it is not MEdvedev, it is MedvEdev."
Thank you for explaining how to correctly pronounce Slavic last names.
by mick1303 Continue: It is not Svitol-I-na, it is Svit-O-lina
by mick1303 It is not Rybak-I-na, it is Ryb-A-kina
by mick1303 It is not Kasatk-I-na, it is Kas-A-tkina
by mick1303 It is not Potap-O-va, it is Pot-A-pova.
by mick1303 It is not Vesn-I-na, it is Vesnin-A
by mick1303 And actually is in not Sharap-O-va (would you believe). It is Shar-A-pova.
by
ponchi101 It is the same reason why Spaniards can't pronounce some American names. They have problems with Reilly Opelka (inevitably pronounced RIE-LEE) or with Andy Murray (inevitably MOO RIE or MOO REE).
There is a reason they are different languages
by Suliso French names are particularly horrible to pronounce, but one can learn even those if a particular one is encountered with some regularity. It's just that commentators rarely gives a rat's tail to be correct. Umpires tend to be better.
by
mick1303 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:04 pm
It is the same reason why Spaniards can't pronounce some American names. They have problems with Reilly Opelka (inevitably pronounced RIE-LEE) or with Andy Murray (inevitably MOO RIE or MOO REE).
There is a reason they are different languages
There are SOME cases, where pronunciation is mitigated with different phonetics or even spelling nuances. SOME. But mostly it is just laziness, because nothing prevents them from memorizing where to put an emphasis.
About those spelling nuances: In Russian alphabet there are two different letters - E (pronounced as "Ye") and E with diaeresis (which is pronounced as "Yo"). But for simplicity (admittedly this is laziness on part of Russians) frequently the spelling does not distinguish between those. For instance, Rublev has the second form of "E" (with diaeresis) and shall be pronounced as Rubly-O-v.
by ti-amie I don't think it's a lack of respect Mick. There are certain sounds and speech patterns that exist in say French or Spanish that don't exist in English especially American English. That said I think as a professional commentator it's your job to know how someone's name is pronounced and practice it before you are on the air. I don't know if you watch NBA matches but the comms there seem to have no problem pronouncing Eastern European names. I think that it's laziness on the part of US comms not malice.
by
skatingfan mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:09 pm
I was always wondering - why is that so complicated for English-speaking announcers to pronounce Russian (Slavic) last names correctly. It is not like they are Vietnamese and require totally different phonetics. One just has to memorize which syllable is to put an emphasis on. But somehow they are butchering it if it is possible to butcher. Every single time. Is it their subtle (or not so subtle) way to show disrespect? Is it the follow-up of the cold war? Even when an umpire pronounces the name correctly, they continue to say it their preferred (incorrect) way.
They can't say Auger-Aliassime either, so I don't think it has anything to do with a Cold War mentality. Most English language speakers are not encouraged to speak other languages at young ages and the ability to pronounce phonemes not used in English is quickly lost as we grow up. Most of the US tennis commentators are hired for their tennis insights, not their ability to enunciate names, and the ability to do so is not encouraged. I appreciate you providing the breakdown of pronunciations for some of the players, but I still don't think I saying them incorrectly often because I can't hear the difference between the pronunciations.
by mmmm8 Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.
That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
by
mick1303 mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am
Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.
That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
It's not just "on Internet". I watched the Medvedev's game the other day and umpire was pronouncing his name correctly. And you would imagine that she done it like once each 30 seconds. But Carillo was having none of that (and her co-announcer as well). They were stubborn in their incorrect pronunciation. It's like "I don't give a s**t, I will say it like it is convenient to me". This is why I mentioned disrespect in my original post.
by
dmforever If I can just chime in here...
In Musetti's name, the "s" is voiced, so it's pronounced like a "z". So it's Mu zet ti .
And the other Lorenzo's last name is SO ne go, not So NE go. The stress is on the first syllable.
Thanks for this post. I think it's important to try to get names right. It shows respect.
Kevin
by mick1303 And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
by
mmmm8 mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:44 am
mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:34 am
Yeah, I don't think the issue is with Slavic names in particular, it just stands out to you, Mick, (and me) as a native speaker. But I do think serious fans (obviously, particularly commentators/media) have a duty to try to learn the accurate pronunciation since it is available on the internet and should certainly make a point to pronounce correctly if they've been corrected by a native speaker or the player themselves, and too many times, the commentators don't correct.
That said, I'm for sure butchering most East Asian names myself, even if I've looked up the correct pronunciation.
It's not just "on Internet". I watched the Medvedev's game the other day and umpire was pronouncing his name correctly. And you would imagine that she done it like once each 30 seconds. But Carillo was having none of that (and her co-announcer as well). They were stubborn in their incorrect pronunciation. It's like "I don't give a s**t, I will say it like it is convenient to me". This is why I mentioned disrespect in my original post.
Yes, I was agreeing with you.
by
mmmm8 mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am
And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
After he pronounced Gilles Simon's last name like the English first name, some fans started saying Giblert in a francophone manner for fun - "Jill-Bear." That didn't stick for that many, but I know I still say it that way for fun.
And, yes, the only ones putting in the effort are the umpires (at least many/most of them). Of course, many of them are not native anglophones and have had their names butchered too.
by mick1303 Players can communicate with umpires and just outright say that "You're pronouncing my name incorrectly". First that I know who's done that was Sveta Kuznetsova. She was fed up with Kuzn-E-tsova. Correct pronunciation is Kuznets-O-va.
by eusebius Honestly, it's just common courtesy. Sometimes I think the players should start saying John Mc -EN-roe or Pam SHREE-ver just to make a point. I heard someone saying SWYE-a-tek the other day. And if the NA commentators say a name a particular way, all the fans in North America think that's how you're supposed to say it, so there's a certain responsibility there too.
Thanks for educating us on Slavic names, Mick! I truly appreciate it.
by
dmforever mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am
And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
by
mick1303 dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm
I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
Kevin, there are some common (similar) cases, but unfortunately there is no "rule", because names carry historical heritage and it could be different in any particular case. Russia has some commonality with US in a sense that it was a boiling pot, where many cultures made their contributions over centuries. To make matters worse, in some cases the name that is spelled exactly the same can be pronounced differently )). The famous example is Ivan-O-V vs Iv-A-nov. Both variations exist. Responsible people would simply ask the player himself/herself. As eusebius pointed out - this is just common courtesy.
by
dmforever mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:49 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm
I like some things about BG, but you are totally right on this one. It's like he is proud of his monolingualism. He gleefully mispronounces names all the time.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
Kevin, there are some common (similar) cases, but unfortunately there is no "rule", because names carry historical heritage and it could be different in any particular case. Russia has some commonality with US in a sense that it was a boiling pot, where many cultures made their contributions over centuries. To make matters worse, in some cases the name that is spelled exactly the same can be pronounced differently )). The famous example is Ivan-O-V vs Iv-A-nov. Both variations exist. Responsible people would simply ask the player himself/herself. As eusebius pointed out - this is just common courtesy.
Thank you! But since there isn't a rule, I hope players can understand why we fans at home get it wrong. But for sure commentators can and should get it right. I think both tours are asking players to say their names correctly and then making those audio clips available on their websites, right?
And per someone (Ti-Amie?) else's great idea, I just looked on forvo.com for the pronunciation of Svetlana's and Daniil's names. Svetlana's is pending, and Daniil's is there (though if you don't read Russian you kind of have to guess that what you clicked on is the right choice) and it was actually very hard for me to hear where the stress was in his last name.
Kevin
by Suliso Actually google translate does a pretty good job with a couple Russian names I tried including Kuznetsova and Medvedev.
For example try Vladivostok (Russian far eastern city) in both English and Russian.
by
ponchi101 dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:34 pm
...
Thank you! But since there isn't a rule, I hope players can understand why we fans at home get it wrong. But for sure commentators can and should get it right. I think both tours are asking players to say their names correctly and then making those audio clips available on their websites, right?
And per someone (Ti-Amie?) else's great idea, I just looked on forvo.com for the pronunciation of Svetlana's and Daniil's names. Svetlana's is pending, and Daniil's is there (though if you don't read Russian you kind of have to guess that what you clicked on is the right choice) and it was actually very hard for me to hear where the stress was in his last name.
Kevin
If Michael Schumacher had a Euro for every time Latin American sportscasters called him MICHAEL (as in American pronunciation) SHOE-MA-CARE (I am trying to imitate Spanish pronunciations) he would be even wealthier.
Languages are difficult, and we are in perhaps only the second generation of real globalization. I wonder how badly we are butchering Asian names when we mention them.
by Suliso We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
by
dmforever Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:48 pm
Actually google translate does a pretty good job with a couple Russian names I tried including Kuznetsova and Medvedev.
For example try Vladivostok (Russian far eastern city) in both English and Russian.
Cool. Thanks.
Yes, they were better than forvo.
Kevin
by
dmforever Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:59 pm
We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
Mandarin has tones, so we were probably wrong.
Kevin
by
ponchi101 Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:59 pm
We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
Probably way less wrong than with Su-Wei Hsieh, that I agree
by ti-amie There was a discussion about Hsieh Su-Wei's name and it's proper pronunciation. The poster, who from the post seemed to be of Asian (Chinese) descent was raging about how pronouncing it "Shay Soo-Way" was so wrong it made their ears bleed. It took a long time for people to talk the person down from the ceiling after explaining that the tones in Asian/Chinese language don't exist everywhere.
I continue to say that if NBA announcers can get names right pro tennis announcers can do the same - if they want to.
by
skatingfan Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:59 pm
We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
Li Na?
by
ponchi101 skatingfan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:21 pm
Suliso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:59 pm
We might be, but then again how wrong can one be with something like Na Li?
Li Na?
Yes, we can screw it up even there
by
mmmm8 dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am
And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
Slavic languages vary, and there IS a rule in Czech/Slovak and it's that the accent there is never on the -OVA for the women's last names. The women's names are a variation of the men's, with OVA added at the end. Logically, the men's and women's names would have the accent in the same place, and so it's always before the -OVA.
As Mick pointed out, that rule doesn't exist in Russian, where usually it's an -a that is added for women's names, if the name changes by gender at all.
by
Deuce Yes, commentators should get it right.
I have heard American commentators 'americanize' many, many foreign names over the years. And I've found it to be lazy, selfish, and disrespectful - kind of as if they think everyone should pronounce the names their way because it makes it easier for them.
To me, the most flagrant case of this is the Indycar driver Rinus van Kalmthout. Because he races in an American racing series, he has become 'Rinus VeeKay' (as in VK). Simply because the American commentators decided that 'van Kalmthout' is 'too difficult' to pronounce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_VeeKay
That said... if the person in question (athlete, etc.) is ok with the mispronunciations and name changes, I suppose it's not disrespectful - just lazy.
by
dmforever mmmm8 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:53 pm
dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:28 am
And the worst perpetrator is of course Brad Gilbert. Who can forget "Ralph Nadal". I wonder what would be his reaction if one of interviewed players would intentionally butcher his name - in his face.
If he thinks that this is funny, then his maturity is still on the kindergarten level.
I have one question about correct pronunciation of Slavic names. Is there a rule? I tried to generalize from the examples that you so graciously gave, and it seemed like the syllable before the "ova" suffix was the stressed syllable. But then in the Kuznetsova example it's different. Thanks in advance for any linguistic help you can provide.
Kevin
Slavic languages vary, and there IS a rule in Czech/Slovak and it's that the accent there is never on the -OVA for the women's last names. The women's names are a variation of the men's, with OVA added at the end. Logically, the men's and women's names would have the accent in the same place, and so it's always before the -OVA.
As Mick pointed out, that rule doesn't exist in Russian, where usually it's an -a that is added for women's names, if the name changes by gender at all.
Interesting. Thanks. But the "ova" suffix is Russian too, right?
Edit: So in Russian, a man's last name can end in "ov" and a woman's last name would just at an "a" to the "ov", but in Czech that man's last name won't end in "ov" and you just add "ova" to the man's name. Is that it? So...
Czech = Navratil / Natvatilova
Russian = Sharapov / Sharapova
??
Kevin
by
mmmm8 dmforever wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:35 pm
Interesting. Thanks. But the "ova" suffix is Russian too, right?
Edit: So in Russian, a man's last name can end in "ov" and a woman's last name would just at an "a" to the "ov", but in Czech that man's last name won't end in "ov" and you just add "ova" to the man's name. Is that it? So...
Czech = Navratil / Natvatilova
Russian = Sharapov / Sharapova
??
Kevin
Exactly.
But Russian will have more variations of the -a being added for women's last names, that are not -ov/ova (for example, Vesnin(a), or Medvedev(a)), names that change endings differently based on gender (i.e., Youzhny's wife is Yulia Youzhnaya), as well as names that don't change based on gender (for example, Gabashvili (which is of Georgian origin) Kirilenko (which is of Ukrainian origin), or Bublik).
by ponchi101 I am making Esperanto the official language of this board, on Monday. Polish up during the weekend!
by
skatingfan ponchi101 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:26 pm
I am making Esperanto the official language of this board, on Monday. Polish up during the weekend!
Estas bone ĉe mi.
by mick1303 About Chezh pronunciations - does this mean that Navratil-O-va is also incorrect? We were always calling her Navrat-I-lova between ourselves. But we just didn't know which way is correct and were saying it as if she was Russian. Russian tennis announcers were also calling her Navrat-I-lova. But those were even worse than American ones - extremely ignorant to everything outside Russia, so I wouldn't rely on how the say it.
by ti-amie Why are we so psychic here on TAT? Whoever the comm in calling the Junior Boys Semi between Rincon and Kym just announced the the winner of the other semi, Shang Juncheng, goes by "Jerry". He said he's glad he's doing that to make it easier for westerners (read Americans). It reminds me of Chan Yung-jan becoming "Latisha" and the chair umpire Zhang Juan going by "Jenny".
by
mmmm8 mick1303 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:47 pm
About Chezh pronunciations - does this mean that Navratil-O-va is also incorrect? We were always calling her Navrat-I-lova between ourselves. But we just didn't know which way is correct and were saying it as if she was Russian. Russian tennis announcers were also calling her Navrat-I-lova. But those were even worse than American ones - extremely ignorant to everything outside Russia, so I wouldn't rely on how the say it.
No, both the Russians and the English speakers have butchered Navratilova:
(read the thread)
The correct pronunciation has the accent on the second A:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cs-M ... tilova.ogg
I watch a good amount of tennis coverage in Russian (from the US via an app) and the pronunciation is generally fairly decent or at least better than American, although definitely not always. A lot of the commentators now are recent past players/have been around them and know the correct pronunciation.
by
ponchi101 Martina is so cool
by mick1303 Another case of wrong pronunciation. Should be Khach-A-nov rather than Kh-A-chanov as they usually say.
by
ti-amie mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:23 am
Another case of wrong pronunciation. Should be Khach-A-nov rather than Kh-A-chanov as they usually say.
Have you heard the comms who drop the "kh" and just say "Hach-an-ov"?
by
mmmm8 ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:43 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:23 am
Another case of wrong pronunciation. Should be Khach-A-nov rather than Kh-A-chanov as they usually say.
Have you heard the comms who drop the "kh" and just say "Hach-an-ov"?
It's the closest pronunciation, reallly, IF they're actually pronouncing the h. I think the reason he transliterates the KH is because he lived in Spain, where the H would've been silent without the K
by
ti-amie mmmm8 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:24 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:43 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:23 am
Another case of wrong pronunciation. Should be Khach-A-nov rather than Kh-A-chanov as they usually say.
Have you heard the comms who drop the "kh" and just say "Hach-an-ov"?
It's the closest pronunciation, reallly, IF they're actually pronouncing the h. I think the reason he transliterates the KH is because he lived in Spain, where the H would've been silent without the K
The ones that I've heard do it always pronounce the "H". Who knew?
by
mick1303 ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:43 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:23 am
Another case of wrong pronunciation. Should be Khach-A-nov rather than Kh-A-chanov as they usually say.
Have you heard the comms who drop the "kh" and just say "Hach-an-ov"?
This is a grey area and depends on the phonetics of the speaker's native language. Yes - Hachanov is closer to original than Khachanov. But I'm not going to nitpick on such things. However which syllable to stress - this is universal and does not depend on who's speaking.
by mick1303 They always say Anisim-O-va. In reality it is, of course, An-I-simova
by
ti-amie Mmmm8 hipped me to the difference in where the emphasis is placed in Russian names as opposed to American English pronunciation. Still, I would've pronounced it An-IS-imova. And would've been wrong. Thanks.
by
mmmm8 ti-amie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:54 pm
Mmmm8 hipped me to the difference in where the emphasis is placed in Russian names as opposed to American English pronunciation. Still, I would've pronounced it An-IS-imova. And would've been wrong. Thanks.
I never learned the correct phonetic spelling out. What's the difference between An-IS-imova and An-I-simova?
by mick1303 I was only concerned about showing the breakdown of syllables and which one shall be stressed. IMO the correct breakdown shall be A-ni-si-mo-va. And the stress is on the 2nd syllable. There is an old Russian male name Anisim and this last name is originated from it. It shall be pronounced as A-nI-sim, hence the stress in the derivative last name.
by
3mlm mick1303 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:39 pm
They always say Anisim-O-va. In reality it is, of course, An-I-simova
Anisimova was born and grew up in the US in a Russian speaking household. In the recording of her saying her name on the WTA site, she says Anisi-MO-va, more US than Russian.
by mick1303 It just means that she succumbed to this situation. But does not mean that they say it right. Marat Safin (who is S-A-fin) after everyone in Spain/France was calling him Saf-I-n was also calling himself that. He was very young and succumbed to that pressure. Now that he is adult man and lives in Russia, I'm sure he is pronouncing his name the correct way.
by mick1303 Also during the Osaka-Anisimova match the Croatian umpire was pronouncing Amanda's last name the correct way.
by
ti-amie mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:38 am
Also during the Osaka-Anisimova match the Croatian umpire was pronouncing Amanda's last name the correct way.
Was Cicak in the chair? She's usually the one I rely on to pronounce names correctly.
by
mick1303 ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:36 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:38 am
Also during the Osaka-Anisimova match the Croatian umpire was pronouncing Amanda's last name the correct way.
Was Cicak in the chair? She's usually the one I rely on to pronounce names correctly.
She has either dyed or naturally gray hair.
by
ti-amie mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:59 pm
ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:36 pm
mick1303 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:38 am
Also during the Osaka-Anisimova match the Croatian umpire was pronouncing Amanda's last name the correct way.
Was Cicak in the chair? She's usually the one I rely on to pronounce names correctly.
She has either dyed or naturally gray hair.
That sounds like Marija Cicak. She's never hidden her gray hair although you can dye grey to make it more evenly light or dark gray.
https://www.shethepeople.tv/top-stories ... don-final/
by mick1303 Yes, it was her
by ti-amie She's one of the best, male or female.
by mick1303 It shall be Kal-I-nina rather than Kalin-I-na.
by Suliso That's a tough one for English speakers... Obvious for me, though.
by Deuce What about Rybakina?
Does it follow the same 'rule' as Kalinina?
Is it Ryb-A-kina, not Rybak-I-na?
by ti-amie Dokic said "Ri-bahk-ina"
by
mick1303 Deuce wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:18 am
What about Rybakina?
Does it follow the same 'rule' as Kalinina?
Is it Ryb-A-kina, not Rybak-I-na?
Yes, I've already listed it here - on the 1st page of this thread. BTW, big props to Steve from SliceTennis. He is a Canadian Youtuber, who covers tennis. I've posted in his video about his incorrect pronunciation of Rybakina. And in the next video he went out of his way to say it the right way. I wish TV announcers were like that.
by Suliso I wonder which other names we're completely butchering. Nobody knows pronunciation rules for every language...
by
mick1303 Suliso wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:52 pm
I wonder which other names we're completely butchering. Nobody knows pronunciation rules for every language...
I'm sure we are very bad in getting Chinese and other East-Asian names correct. Chinese is even phonetically quite distant from European languages.
But Slavic languages are not that distant. In most cases it is just getting a correct syllable stressed. Not a big effort.
by Suliso French is very difficult if you don't know the rules. Arabic too.
by ponchi101 Ask a spanish speaking native to say "Worcestershire". Or "Euler" (the mathematician). Good luck with that.
by
mick1303 ponchi101 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:34 pm
Ask a spanish speaking native to say "Worcestershire". Or "Euler" (the mathematician). Good luck with that.
I'm sure there is a lot of such cases as well, if we compare one randomly selected language with another randomly selected language. But I started this specific thread on Russian names because I happen to know both Russian and English and can say with a certainty how the Russian and Ukrainian names shall be pronounced. As you may see I started this thread a good while before this war begun. Maybe I wouldn't bother with it now, seeing how Putin's propaganda uses language issues. But it is not only Russians who are the subject of abuse. Ukrainians and Kazakhs as well. I do not venture into difficulties for Spanish speakers to pronounce names from other languages simply because I'm not qualified to judge.
by ponchi101 I meant it the other way around. Pronunciation in Spanish is easy: we have 5 vowels and 5 vowel sounds; there are no differences as in, for example, English, were the A in CAT is pronounced differently than the A in SAW.
Therefore, spanish speaking people have a very hard time pronouncing words and names properly in almost all other languages.
