Talk About Tennis 2.0

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:42 am My mom and sister have been to a beach resort in UAE. These are rather popular with Europeans and no they don't need to be guarded like that. Let's not exaggerate folks.

In Saudi maybe...

This is part of the point I heard raised on a podcast.

Saudi late to the party in trying to add some elements of faux equality.

(Also talked about how the other countries that have been investing in tennis for 20+ years must not be happy at all that Saudi jumps to the front of the line)

In the grand scheme tennis is small potatoes. I imagine UAE are worried that Saudis are trying to steel their position as Arab world's financial and transportation center.

seriously, though, I hav always wondered - is it better to engage with the wrongdoer or to ostracize them? My instinct says engage but I also remember the case of South Africa and apartheid - change came only after the whole world systematically boycotted them. what do people here think?

I think it depends how "wrong". If you take it too far you'd have to ostracize 50%+ of all countries. Where the line is drawn is subjective I'm afraid

Agree that the lines are blurry. For example: do you ostracize Venezuela? Certainly there are human rights violations and the GOVT is not democratic, but although it is a dictatorship it is not in the same level of N. Korea, for example.
But the issue here is that the WTA is (or course) a women's organization and S. Arabia is one country where women are blatantly and systematically oppressed to the point in which they are objects owned by a male (father or husband). This case is different in that the WTA would not be allowed to be founded in S. Arabia.
That is the reason this is so shocking.
Last. There is also a difference between ostracizing and not-engaging. In this case, the WTA does not have to ostracize S. Arabia; for example, imagine that a good player would come from there. She obviously should be allowed to play in the tour. But from there to granting them the Finals there is a stretch.

ashkor87 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:42 am seriously, though, I hav always wondered - is it better to engage with the wrongdoer or to ostracize them? My instinct says engage but I also remember the case of South Africa and apartheid - change came only after the whole world systematically boycotted them. what do people here think?

I think most leaders and changemakers would choose engage in some way, within limits.

WTA going to Saudi Arabia is a gray area for me. They need the money. It will benefit the players. A financially healthy WTA will benefit the sport and women's sports the world over. It's a way of using Saudi Arabia's money for the good of women and creating an opportunity for progress, while likely not inflicting any harm. (I understand sportswashing, but that burden shouldn't fall so heavily on the WTA.) It's similar to effective altruism. Is that naive? Maybe. It's also naive to think that moral victories can sustain the WTA. And I agree with the argument that the WTA shouldn't have to fight this kind of battle alone. If the ATP can cash in, so can they. If it's wrong for the women to cash in, it''s wrong for everyone.

I think I lean toward, if most players are OK with it, I'm OK with it.

Suliso wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:42 am My mom and sister have been to a beach resort in UAE. These are rather popular with Europeans and no they don't need to be guarded like that. Let's not exaggerate folks.

In Saudi maybe...

I wish I could find the original post. I don't think the person was making the situation up.

I don't trust religious countries, they've never given me reason to.

Like.... Texas?

Jabeur wants 'more respect' for women after reaching Madrid quarters

Madrid (AFP) – Tunisian tennis star Ons Jabeur on Monday called out organisers of European tournaments for failing to "respect" women players by giving preferential treatment to men at combined events after she swept into the quarter-finals of the Madrid Open.

Jabeur dismissed ninth-seeded Jelena Ostapenko 6-0, 6-4 to reach the last eight along with top seed Iga Swiatek who eased past home favourite Sara Sorribes Tormo 6-1, 6-0.

But Jabeur, the 2022 Madrid champion, later took a swipe at tournament organisers, telling reporters she believes tennis still has a way to go to achieve gender equality, despite it being the leader in women's sport.

"Definitely tennis is a sport that I'm proud to play in as a woman," said the world number nine, who next plays either Coco Gauff or Madison Keys for a place in the semi-finals.

"But I feel like we have a long way, especially here in Madrid and in Rome, in Europe in general. I feel like they need to respect women more and they need to respect how we are playing."

Sharing examples from her personal experiences at events, Jabeur said women players were not given the same access to practice courts as the men, and noted how WTA matches were not shown on TV as frequently as ATP matches.

"The way they treat women here and men, they're completely different. Maybe people from outside, they don't see it. I'm definitely one of the people that I want to speak up," she added.

"Here in Spain, I would love to go to the hotel and open the TV and see a woman's tennis match.

"I haven't seen once one tennis match of a woman. Obviously, I understand there are a lot of Spanish (male players) playing, but asking for one match? Even the female Spanish (players) they are not even showing.

"For me it's really frustrating to see that. How can you inspire young girls without showing any match in that?"

Meanwhile, Swiatek dropped her opening game before sweeping the next 12 against her Spanish opponent to book a quarter-final meeting with Brazilian left-hander Beatriz Haddad Maia.

"We played many tough matches against each other so it's not going to be easy," said the Polish world number one of her upcoming opponent.

"She's always a very intense player and knows how to play on clay."

In the men's competition, American Ben Shelton saw his unbeaten 5-0 start to the clay season come to an end at the hands of Kazakhstan's Alexander Bublik, who won 3-6, 7-6 (7/2), 6-4 to reach the fourth round, where he awaits Daniil Medvedev or Sebastian Korda.

© 2024 AFP

Issued on: 29/04/2024 - 15:19Modified: 29/04/2024 - 15:17

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/articles/ceve4459v7vo

From a government that hacked a journalist to pieces?
Sure...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... nis-family
Interesting interview...better than some in the tennis journals?

ti-amie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:00 pm


https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/articles/ceve4459v7vo

ponchi101 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:45 pm From a government that hacked a journalist to pieces?
Sure...

The WTA was always going to get its ducks in a row and suppress any opposition to the move. The only thing that surprised me about Kasatkina is that she caved so soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... rism-court

Surely the wta cannot shrug this off?