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[Suliso]

I don't think the United States has ever had a smarter politician (both in terms of genuine smarts and playing the political game) than Barack Obama.

How about someone like Henry Kissinger? Probably the most influential US Secretary of State of the 20th century.

[Suliso]

As for recent presidents other than Obama few of them particularly intelligent in the classical sense. Maybe Bush the elder?

[JazzNU]

I'm not sure why you are separating being a smart person and being a smart politician. Your claim was that she was the "best politician."

I'm absolutely stuck on you calling a Rhodes Scholar not a super smart person, merely a smart politician.

I don't think we see this in the same way, which is fine. But I don't think Elizabeth is the best politician, I think she has an impressive mind when it comes to finances and economics, but there are many, many other parts to being a politician. I would easily put Kamala over her in terms of being a savvy politician. Just because she can't best Liz on finances, doesn't change that. Politicians deal with much more than just that. I'd put both behind Barack and Bill.

There are plenty of people with ideas. But I think maybe you're focusing too much on those that are constantly in the spotlight. AOC? Doesn't warrant a mention in this conversation to me, so it makes me think you're focusing on people who get the most media attention. Though since you brought her up, I'd say she's a much better politician than she is a smart person. I think she's intelligent overall, but her true gift is in her own branding, which falls under politics to me.

[JazzNU]

How about someone like Henry Kissinger? Probably the most influential US Secretary of State of the 20th century.

Uh no. The man that many have made the case should be brought up on war crimes is definitely a hard pass from me.

[ponchi101]

Well, this is sort of a GOAT's debate. No way it can be settled.
I also think Kamala is very smart. To tell you the truth, I would have preferred a "Harris/Biden" ticket, but that had political problems. And I do think Biden has a good chance of not finishing his term, which would put the country in very good hands.
I brought AOC as an example of how NOT to measure in this conversation. I think she is smart, but not so much politically and unable of flexibility. It was a negative example; I agree with your comment.
Kissinger? Very smart, indeed. He will have a lot to say while he burns in hell.

[ti-amie]

I see AOC as an ideologue not a politician. A politician would've had a plan in place for the people who live in the area of Queens where Amazon was going to be located. She and her supporters did laps and then moved on to something else leaving those people exactly where they were before she came on the scene. Getting slapped by Nancy Pelosi who is a master politician/tactician when it came to committee assignments might be the beginning of her road to becoming a politician.

I would put Nancy above all of them. The job of Speaker requires skill in managing people, deciding political priorities and outthinking the folks trying to plunge a knife in your back. If Nancy was now Majority Leader the Insurrection Caucus would be heading for the hills.

[Suliso]

AOC doesn't strike me as smart at all. Unless you're talking pure self promotion.

As for Harris from a political point of view she didn't do all that well when she run for the president herself. Let's see if it's all different in the next primaries. There will be intra party competition unless Biden dies in office.

[ti-amie]

AOC doesn't strike me as smart at all. Unless you're talking pure self promotion.

As for Harris from a political point of view she didn't do all that well when she run for the president herself. Let's see if it's all different in the next primaries. There will be intra party competition unless Biden dies in office.

I agree with the highlighted part.

[Suliso]

Globally would be difficult for any of these people to compete with Angela Merkel.

[ponchi101]

Globally would be difficult for any of these people to compete with Angela Merkel.

Not even close. From Wiki:
Merkel was educated at Karl Marx University, Leipzig, where she studied physics from 1973 to 1978.[31] While a student, she participated in the reconstruction of the ruin of the Moritzbastei, a project students initiated to create their own club and recreation facility on campus. Such an initiative was unprecedented in the GDR of that period, and initially resisted by the University; however, with backing of the local leadership of the SED party, the project was allowed to proceed.[39] At school she learned to speak Russian fluently, and was awarded prizes for her proficiency in Russian and mathematics. She was the best in her class in mathematics and Russian, and completed her school education with the best possible average Abitur grade 1.0.[40]

[Suliso]

Merkel has a PhD in quantum chemistry. I once looked up one of her academic papers (didn't really understand, not my area). Her husband is a retired professor of physics in Berlin.

[ti-amie]

Who said scientists can't function in the real world?

She was also involved with the Stasi in the former East Germany.

[the Moz]

Over the last 15 years Merkel has been (mostly) solid & effective in her dual roles as German Chancellor and de facto head of the EU

And she has her own song...

[ponchi101]

Who said scientists can't function in the real world?

She was also involved with the Stasi in the former East Germany.

The Wiki page states the opposite:
"Near the end of her studies, Merkel sought an assistant professorship at an engineering school. As a condition for getting the job, Merkel was told she would need to agree to report on her colleagues to officers of the Ministry for State Security (Stasi). Merkel declined, using the excuse that she could not keep secrets well enough to be an effective spy.[41]"

Anyway, I think we agree she is in another level, intellectually.

[ti-amie]