National, Regional and Local News

[ti-amie]

No Owen that wasn't too much.

I think Beto was safe with all the media there. If someone did this at a gathering of followers of TFG I would worry about their safety.

[Deuce]

Americans like to bring everything into the political arena, and to blame politics and politicians for everything.
The Republicans blame the Democrats for everything... the Democrats blame the Republicans for everything... and around and around it goes, never solving anything.

It's far too easy to politicize things and to 'blame the politicians' for everything - because that way, no individual - or group - has to accept any responsibility. 'It's all the fault of politicians'...
Sigh.

Murder - whether mass murder or individual murder - and other crimes against the person are not political problems. They cannot be legislated into disappearing, and the problem won't be solved in any political arena, or by politicians. Crimes against the person happen when (and where) the Democrats are in power, and they happen when (and where) the Republicans are in power.

It is a societal problem. A very grave and profound societal problem. And only when SOCIETY takes responsibility - as individuals and/or as groups - will there be any hope of actually solving this problem.

[Owendonovan]

Americans like to bring everything into the political arena, and to blame politics and politicians for everything.
The Republicans blame the Democrats for everything... the Democrats blame the Republicans for everything... and around and around it goes, never solving anything.

It's far too easy to politicize things and to 'blame the politicians' for everything - because that way, no individual - or group - has to accept any responsibility. 'It's all the fault of politicians'...
Sigh.

Murder - whether mass murder or individual murder - and other crimes against the person are not political problems. They cannot be legislated into disappearing, and the problem won't be solved in any political arena, or by politicians. Crimes against the person happen when (and where) the Democrats are in power, and they happen when (and where) the Republicans are in power.

It is a societal problem. A very grave and profound societal problem. And only when SOCIETY takes responsibility - as individuals and/or as groups - will there be any hope of actually solving this problem.

No one is going to be able to take politics out of societal ills if the politicians are passing laws exacerbating societal ills.

[Deuce]

Americans like to bring everything into the political arena, and to blame politics and politicians for everything.
The Republicans blame the Democrats for everything... the Democrats blame the Republicans for everything... and around and around it goes, never solving anything.

It's far too easy to politicize things and to 'blame the politicians' for everything - because that way, no individual - or group - has to accept any responsibility. 'It's all the fault of politicians'...
Sigh.

Murder - whether mass murder or individual murder - and other crimes against the person are not political problems. They cannot be legislated into disappearing, and the problem won't be solved in any political arena, or by politicians. Crimes against the person happen when (and where) the Democrats are in power, and they happen when (and where) the Republicans are in power.

It is a societal problem. A very grave and profound societal problem. And only when SOCIETY takes responsibility - as individuals and/or as groups - will there be any hope of actually solving this problem.

No one is going to be able to take politics out of societal ills if the politicians are passing laws exacerbating societal ills.

Again, my point is that, even the strictest gun control ever known will not stop people from killing people. The problem is far, far deeper than mere gun control. As is so often said: ‘Guns don’t kill people - people kill people.’
If the societal problem is tackled by working hard on things like bullying, insecurity, abuse, etc. - you won’t need to rely on the politicians for gun control (which, in itself, won’t solve anything, as I’ve mentioned) because people will be less desperate, less victimized, less lonely, etc.

And it’s up to the members of society - not the politicians - to remedy problems like bullying, insecurity, abuse, etc.
Looking to the politicians to solve these problems is a total cop-out. It’s like signing a petition - it makes people ‘feel good’ by blaming someone, or by signing something - but it does nothing to actually solve the problem.
As well, politicians are largely liars, manipulators, and thieves - why in the world would anyone of sound mind look to these people for help or guidance of any degree?

“...This government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of its way. It does not keep the country free. It does not settle the West. It does not educate. The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way.” - Henry Thoreau

[Suliso]

Politicians are not some kind of allien species. They are us and reflect our societies.

As for a gun control (impossible politically, I know) it would solve this particular type of murders fairly well. Vast majority of mass shooters in US have no previous criminal record and wouldn't know where to get guns and ammo on the black market.

[Deuce]

That's a nice dream... but that's all it is.
You don't change something so deeply ingrained in a culture via mere legislation. Waving a magic wand won't fix anything.
There are things that one cannot legislate - respect and rational thinking being among those things.

For this problem to be solved, a major overhaul of the American outlook and perspective is needed.

[Suliso]

You'd be surprised how much could be changed via legislation alone. I've seen it myself in other countries.

In any case the other option is do nothing and hope for the best. But the best will not happen...

[ponchi101]

You'd be surprised how much could be changed via legislation alone. I've seen it myself in other countries.

In any case the other option is do nothing and hope for the best. But the best will not happen...

Dunblane, Port Arthur, Utoeya (sorry for the spelling). Swift prohibition, has not happened again. Correlation is NOT causation, but there is something to be said there.
As you say, something could be done.

[ti-amie]

The news coming out of Uvalde today is disturbing to put it mildly.

[ti-amie]

The WSJ article is paywalled but it seems that Ms Gomez had time to drive 40 MILES to rescue her children.

[ti-amie]

[ti-amie]

[JazzNU]

Give me a minute and I should be able to post the WSJ article referenced above.

And yes, that mother drove 40 miles when she got word of the school shooting.

[ti-amie]

Give me a minute and I should be able to post the WSJ article referenced above.

And yes, that mother drove 40 miles when she got word of the school shooting.

And got handcuffed for her trouble...

[JazzNU]

Uvalde Shooter Fired Outside School for 12 Minutes Before Entering

As police detail new timeline of mass shooting at elementary school, community members express anger and frustration

By Elizabeth Findell , Rob Copeland and Douglas Belkin


UVALDE, Texas—The gunman behind the mass shooting at an elementary school here lingered outside the building for 12 minutes firing shots before walking into the school and barricading in a classroom where he killed 19 children and two teachers, authorities said in a news conference Thursday laying out a new timeline of events.

Victor Escalon, a regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said he couldn’t say why no one stopped the now deceased gunman, 18 year-old Salvador Ramos, from entering the school during that time Tuesday. Most of the shots Ramos fired came during the first several minutes when he entered the school, Mr. Escalon said.

DPS officials previously said an armed school officer confronted Ramos as he arrived at the school. Mr. Escalon said Thursday that information was incorrect and no one encountered Ramos as he arrived at the school. “There was not an officer readily available and armed,” Mr. Escalon said.

Ramos shot his grandmother Tuesday morning and then used her truck to drive to Robb Elementary School, crashing the truck into a nearby ditch at 11:28 a.m., according to the timeline laid out by Mr. Escalon. The gunman then began shooting at people at a funeral home across the street, prompting a 911 call reporting a gunman at the school at 11:30. Ramos then climbed a fence onto school grounds and began firing before walking inside, unimpeded, at 11:40. The first police arrived on the scene at 11:44 and exchanged gunfire with Ramos, who barricaded himself in a fourth-grade classroom. There, he killed the students and teachers.

A Border Patrol tactical team went into the school an hour later, around 12:40, was able to get into the classroom and kill Ramos, Mr. Escalon said.

Thursday’s updates came as Uvalde residents were asking questions and expressing anger over the time it took for law enforcement to end the school shooting. Videos circulated on social media showing parents confronting police outside the building while Ramos was barricaded in the classroom.

“The police were doing nothing,” said Angeli Rose Gomez, who after learning about the shooting drove 40 miles to Robb Elementary School, where her children are in second and third grade. “They were just standing outside the fence. They weren’t going in there or running anywhere.”
State officials have said that local police were at the school within a few minutes of the gunman entering the building and exchanged gunfire with him, but they were unable to gain access to a classroom where he barricaded himself, firing on officers.

Ms. Gomez, a farm supervisor, said that she was one of numerous parents who began encouraging—first politely, and then with more urgency—police and other law enforcement to enter the school. After a few minutes, she said, federal marshals approached her and put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for intervening in an active investigation.

Ms. Gomez convinced local Uvalde police officers whom she knew to persuade the marshals to set her free. Around her, the scene was frantic. She said she saw a father tackled and thrown to the ground by police and a third pepper-sprayed. Once freed from her cuffs, Ms. Gomez made her distance from the crowd, jumped the school fence, and ran inside to grab her two children. She sprinted out of the school with them.

Videos circulated on social media Wednesday and Thursday of frantic family members trying to get access to Robb Elementary as the attack was unfolding, some of them yelling at police who blocked them from entering.

“Shoot him or something!” a woman’s voice can be heard yelling on a video, before a man is heard saying about the officers, “They’re all just [expletive] parked outside, dude. They need to go in there.”

Parents can be heard yelling to each other that their kids were inside the school and that they needed to get in. A woman can be heard yelling at a police officer, “He’s one person! Take him out!”

The Uvalde Police Department couldn’t be reached for comment. A representative for the U.S. Marshals didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Asked at the press conference why law enforcement weren’t able to respond in the initial 12 minutes Ramos was outside the school, Mr. Escalon said that was part of the investigation. “Our job is to report the facts and have answers. We’re not there yet,” he said.

Texas state trooper Juan Maldonado said he went to the school with a friend whose wife was one of the teachers slain in the shooting. He said police were already on the scene, indicating a fast response time, and that it appeared they had set up a perimeter around the building.

Mr. Maldonado said he and the friend were able to enter the building to get students out and showed cuts on his forearms that he said were from breaking windows to assist in that effort.

“I don’t want to critique anything; we’re here to be supportive of the community,” he said.

After the confrontation ended with Ramos dead, school buses began to arrive to transport students from the school, according to Ms. Gomez. She said she saw police use a Taser on a local father who approached the bus to collect his child.

“They didn’t do that to the shooter, but they did that to us. That’s how it felt,” Ms. Gomez said.

Danny Ruiz, whose great-niece died in the attack, said he arrived at the school after hearing gunfire and felt grateful for the police response.

“The Border Patrol agent who took him out, to me, that guy is a hero,” said Mr. Ruiz, 51.

Thursday’s rising anger came after more than 1,000 people from this grieving city gathered Wednesday night for a prayer vigil.

“God is here with us tonight,” Pastor Tony Gruben, of Baptist Temple Church, told the people gathered at the Uvalde County Fairplex. “God still loves you and God still loves those little children.”

Community members packed the stands, spilled into the aisles and stood on the dirt rodeo floor where the ministers preached from a stage under flags of Texas and the U.S. White cowboy hats dotted the audience along with scores of maroon T-shirts that said “Uvalde Coyotes,” the high school mascot. A phalanx of police officers stood stone-faced watching the crowd, and scores of journalists from around the world aimed their cameras and beamed the scene around the globe.

President Biden and first lady Jill Biden will travel to Uvalde on Sunday to grieve with the community, the White House said.

The massacre represented the deadliest school shooting since the slayings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., nearly 10 years ago.

—Alicia A. Caldwell and Sadie Gurman contributed to this article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-res ... 1653588161